Stemming off of the pet peeves thread, I have a question for the higher level players. What would be an example to you of a good line, and what would be an example of a bad one? I saw that someone said that boarder flip to lh was a cop out, for example, but boarder flip to in would be a good one, because if you can land it back on the spike, you can certainly get it in the hole. From this kind of argument I would assume that longer lines aren't always better. Agree? Disagree? I am curious as a newer player (1 year) because I want to start combining tricks into lines. When I started playing I assumed that the best thing to do was combine a group of very diverse tricks and that would be a good combination. What in your mind makes a good line and what would be an example of a bad line?
I have not been playing much longer than you but I have my own opinions. I classify myself a pro by any means but I can still give you some feedback. For lines I find it super important to finish smoothly. Decide on a nice ender and commit to it. Uncertainty is not an option. Jamming for a camera to make a quick video is good so long as you don't have any empty spaces. As for the length, it really depends on what you feel like. Going for a super hard trick that is brand new to you? Do the trick and maybe add some easier tricks on to the end just to show your consistency. Or get a nice line of intermediate tricks and use that to wow people on how much you can do in one clip. Hope this helped you
Good question! There certainly are 'cop outs' that aren't immediately obvious to lower level players, such as: - going to lighthouse after a borders or inward lunar line (going straight to in isn't that hard, really) - more juggles is a way to 'reset yourself' mid-trick (once you're good at juggles, that is) - spinning the tama when you're going for a swap spike (this one isn't necessarily 'bad', but it does make the trick easier. If used appropriately its cool) - catching small cup in the 'big cup position'. (This one is never good! Style points docked immensely) - spinning the tama at the end of a spacewalk. (Sometimes this is okay, but its probably the easiest ender there is, so in a competition format you're not going to get many pts from the judges for pulling it) Perhaps more pertinent though, is the trick itself! Tricks with good concept or symmetry are usually the favourite of pro players. In an over-simplified sense: the less words you can use to describe a trick, the better it is. For example: Around 1-2-3 lighthouse flip vs big cup-> lunar-> lunarflip-> little cup-> airplane-> 1.5 swap-> bottom cup-> kenflip to bottom cup-> lighthouse-> lighthouse flip -> swap spike These two lines are about equally long, and similarly difficult, but one of them is kinda spammy and random. Can you pick out which one? In this way, 1-2-3 lines, and 'around the' lines are always a safe bet. As an example of some symmetrical lines I've been pulling in games of DAMA lately: - Pull up slinger late 1 turn swap to lighthouse -> lighthouse flip insta inward lighthouse flip -> swap late slinger to spike (actually, I guess I should do '1 turn swap late slinger to spike' at the end, for true symmetry ) Some players that usually display great trick concepts and planning: Colin Sander, Christian Fraser, Roddama
Oh no! I've been guilty of the 'catching small cup in big cup position' fairly recently :O Thanks for reminding me to be better- and to stop my inward whirlwinds from half-corking
For me, it's the repetition that kills a good trick. Take a look at Rolf's stall trick in Kr-Tokyo-Om (it's trick no.3 in the vid) for example. It feels long and draggy, since Rolf is doing pretty much the same thing for three times. (No hate on the man, though) I prefer sprinkles of randomness in a trick. The unpredictability factor makes a line all the more interesting to look at, be it by players or non-players. At the same time, much like @htimSxelA i like doing symmetry tricks as well. Symmetry in this case is not just limited to pyramid tricks (1-2-3-2-1 whirlwind, for example), it can be something like a 111-22-3-22-111 (an inverse pyramid) for another example, or maybe starting out with a spacewalk 1-turn in, lacing other stuff in between, and ending it with a spacewalk 1-turn in. Something about that line feels.. poetic to me. Above all these, planning and creativity are important. Delving deeper, the tricks you choose and how you decide to present them tells a story. I try to have a sense of coherence to my tricks, and at the same time it sorta tells a story.
Could you clarify for me what you mean by spinning the tama in this scenario? Spinning as in keeping the ball spinning on a certain axis or are we talking about the tama rotating?
Watch any of Wyatt Bray's tricks closely or in slomo, he does them for his swap spikes. Take the trick "j-stick swap downspike." He will flick the j stick, but when he swaps his grip to go for the downspike, he lets the tama roll of of his finger so that the hole stays in one place. It makes it easier to spot the hole and get the downspike. If that doesn't make sense, just picture a halfsplit tama. If he lets the tama roll off his finger along the halfsplit line, the hole will just stay in one place.
I think that a good combo or a trick line doesnt have to be long. When i plan a trick i look for simetry in it as @htimSxelA and not to have empty spaces. Sometimes i try to fill in all the empty spaces if i can. And go with the flow. With that i mean for example when you catch tama/ken and you are absorbing the catch with your knees, immediately (as you ar now extending in your knees) throw it for the next trick. Try not to lose space by changing grip. I hope you all understand what im saying.
@Nick Lectura's post should give you the right idea, same sort of thing, but as an exit for a spacewalk instead of a swap spike When doing spacewalky tricks, if you can get the tama spinning at the end of the string while holding ken, gyroscopic forces will keep it rotating in that plane, so when you pull it up to spike at the end of the line, you won't have to snipe the hole as the ball rotates 'end over end'. You can do this by giving the tama a foot kick (see: Iji from Zooma videos, he does this a lot), or by pulling the string 'out of plane' (while holding the tension in it) at the end of a trick (this is a more technical move, but people who are good at spacewalking should understand what I mean). Putting a bearing bead on makes it much easier to accomplish the spin, and actually, this is the one thing I don't like about bearing beads: I would rather be able to make the tama rotate 'end over end' more easily, since the spinning thing makes tricks like exit to bird or handlestall much tougher to pull off. Otherwise bearing beads work well for reducing string tangle, so I still use em.
I myself am not capable of high level tricks yet, so I don't even abide by my own opinions on this, but when you're a higher level player, I think it's much nicer to do killer finishes. I find a line to be much less stylish when it's overly long and filled with difficulty but then at the end someone just lets the ken fall in. Still props on that person for lacing, but it's the least stylish thing you can possibly do. I feel if you're able to play at a skill level that difficult, why not try a shorter line that has more variety and finish it strongly? It's like an art portfolio - strong at the start and at the end - why leave them with something weaker that gives off that impression? I personally think it all has to do with your level. As you are lower in skill, those lines with cheaty transitions and finishes are still impressive but as people play at top level, I really take a closer look at their line composition and style. Hence I like players like C Fraser and Jake Wiens. When I watch their edits, I get a much stronger sense of the lines being carefully crafted and thought out.
I know what you mean when you say that Wyatt spins his tama in his hand when he trades from something to downspike. Do you think that is a "bad combo" or do you think that's more skillful because it increases his consistency with a trick? Personally, I think it's fine and actually want to learn how to spin the tama like that myself. If anyone has any tips on this, that would be much appreciated!
I think it's more skillful because I've heard that some people can't spin the tama because they think it's way harder that way. They would just prefer to dry toss it. Personally, I think it's super smart. Spinning the tama when you do a trick like "1.5 swap throw airplane" allows you to just grab the tama and twist it to find the hole. You don't have to sorta guess where the hole is like you do when you dry toss it. As for tips, just read my example again. All you gotta do is let the tama roll off your finger in a straight line. Just practice rolling it off your finger into the air to get used to letting it go in a straight line
@Josh Kim actually, the Terra Pill is a really good way to practise the finger roll trick. Being a cylinder sorta shape, it is much easier to get the motion down properly, and then you can take it to a kendama tama and you'll have the basics dialed in already!