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JKA Kendamas

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by htimSxelA, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. Stuart Barron

    Stuart Barron Slayer

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2016
    Location:
    England
    There were quite some changes in the slip stop and base ring from the 80s,90's through to the present!

    I wonder who was responsible for those sort of refinements? The JKA or the manufacturers?

    Some really cool pieces @htimSxelA Also you gave me some info on the Uk Kendama forum about a Shin Sakura that I picked up for pennies. It had a big weight discrepancy from ken to tama. I am actually wondering if the ken dried out as some of the grain is very porous looking.
     
    Nov 18, 2016
  2. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    At the time, the Shin Sakura was cheaper, so it was the model that many schools purchased for their kendama programs. I've been to Japanese schools to help teach kendama lessons before, and they just literally had bins full of sakuras and shin sakuras. Players outside of the school setting preferred the Mugen brand, so my guess is this is part of the reason for the shin sakura's scarcity. Players have Mugens and can trade, schools have shin sakuras, but are removed from the online world.

    Awesome info all around though, I missed that Gentosha kendama at the 40th event! Woops! Wish I would've picked one up. They're making a full size model now, but it just has this weird jka recommended seal, not approved.
     
    Nov 18, 2016
  3. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I could see TK16s one day pulling in a higher than retail price tag for sure, maybe shin fujis, but I think that TK16s will be in higher demand.
    I would be surprised if they reached 2013-2014 Mugen prices though, that was perhaps the height of it. From what I've heard lately, sellers aren't getting the prices for a Mugen they were a few years ago. The hype has dropped, probably because of the Musou (you can get a product with the Mugen name on it for like $120, so why spend $400 just to get an old one?).
     
    Nov 18, 2016
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  4. rTTn

    rTTn Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I need to gather all those rokurosens. I thought there was only the 3.
     
    Nov 19, 2016
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  5. RyanArthurWalker

    RyanArthurWalker Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I agree. I imagine TKs will increase because of the nostalgia. A lot.of Dama players had a TK for their first Dama.

    I never had a Shin Fuji until this year but I'm not gunna lie, I love the paint.
     
    Nov 19, 2016
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  6. Thomas Lowry

    Thomas Lowry n00b

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Location:
    Bellingham WA USA
    I finally managed to get my hands on a Mt. Fuji a month or two ago, sad to hear that shin fujis will be gone! WIN_20161119_18_04_27_Pro.jpg
     
    Nov 19, 2016
  7. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    @Thomas Lowry cool! Yours actually has a slightly different seal than mine, hmm. Mine appears to be more like the modern seal, so I'm guessing yours may be a little older? Interesting
     
    Nov 20, 2016
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  8. Thomas Lowry

    Thomas Lowry n00b

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Location:
    Bellingham WA USA
    @htimSxelA whoa you're right! That's really interesting. Btw I have been wondering if you know anymore information on the history of the Mt. Fuji since that post in the BKA forums years ago, if so I'd love to hear more about it!
     
    Nov 21, 2016
  9. Giulian Tena

    Giulian Tena Honed Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Dude at my mall(which is so close to my house I can walk there) they have this Japanese store that sells Shin Fujis. And that's the only kendama they carry. They have red,blue, black, and even natty
     
    Nov 25, 2016
  10. Cheech_Sander

    Cheech_Sander Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Nov 25, 2016
  11. Ben Lowe

    Ben Lowe Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Port Angeles, WA
    Just got my first TK16 (that was in an insane prize package from @Sol Kendamas). So shiny!

     
    Nov 26, 2016
  12. Jun. I

    Jun. I Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    how does it play?
     
    Nov 28, 2016
  13. Ben Lowe

    Ben Lowe Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Port Angeles, WA
    Ken is great, feels really solid. Birch I believe? Someone correct me here if I'm wrong. The tama is your classic glossy hardcoat, which I don't mind, but the tama hole seems significantly smaller than all my other kendamas. Much smaller than my Ozora. TK16 bevel is very steep and small. I'm honestly debating whether or not I should shred it as is, use it to really hone, or take the Ken and use it with another tama. There is something special and pure about keeping it as is, but I totally think the Ken would be awesome on another tama too.
     
    Nov 28, 2016
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  14. Sbermea22

    Sbermea22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    The kens are TANKS they can take a beating. I've never seen a chipped tk. The tama will take a minute to break in. A lot slower break in period then a oozy. But once honed they are unstoppable. I vote thrash the set up as is.
     
    Nov 28, 2016
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  15. Nick Lectura

    Nick Lectura Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    So jelly. I ordered a red TK from Kendama Syndicate thinking I was getting the old shape (the shape you have) but I ended up receiving a new shape one instead. Old shape slays the slingers. And yes, birch wood. The bevel is smaller, but it still slays regardless. I would say shred as is; it will definitely be harder to learn and lace tricks, but the process will help you in the long run. If you decide to separate the set up, I recommend pairing the ken with silk or girr paint. I have one on a rasta girr right now and it slaysss
     
    Nov 28, 2016
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  16. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I agree with the others, slay it as is! TK16s are often recommended because they're hard to play. The paint is always slick as hell, the bevel is small, the legitimacy is real. Once you learn a trick on that dama, you can get it on anything
     
    Nov 28, 2016
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  17. Joel Clayton

    Joel Clayton Honed Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Location:
    St. George, UT
    I really need to cop on of these, how is it breaking in?
     
    Nov 28, 2016
  18. Ben Lowe

    Ben Lowe Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Port Angeles, WA
    @Sbermea22 @Nick Lectura @htimSxelA - Okay you guys have convinced me. I'll keep it legit and OG and slay as is. :)

    I JUST got it, so I haven't had nearly enough time to know yet. Plus I'm honestly playing the other kendamas (Sol Vibe and Flow) from my winnings a bit more right now. But I will definitely spend some quality time with the TK.

    These were all the prizes I got. TK16 in the mix with the Sols. Stoked about all of them:
     
    Nov 28, 2016
  19. maxdesu

    maxdesu Honed Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Two things to chime in on here:
    The reason why TKs got pulled from the JKA lineup is that the factory changed the slipstop shape (which changed the handle) on their own, without contacting JKA first. I don't know if this was accidental or on purpose, but when you place the tama on the slipstop, it should 'rock' a little bit, and not be flush on both sides. This makes the trick difficult, because the bevel can only lean on one side of the ken, (normally the base cup side, with a little play on the sarado side). Making both sides flush makes the trick much, much easier, and thus, JKA had to pull the 'new' TKs from competition. In bigger comps, it is actually illegal to use the new shape TKs, even if they have the seal on them.

    Which is a huge bummer not only because TKs slay, but because TKs have the biggest share of damz sold (retail) and make JKA the most money, helping fund JKA events and the like.


    The other is about JKA freestyle/evolution to western style:

    First and foremost, JKA ignoring western play styles and the evolution of tricks is completely untrue. This is a relatively new movement that JKA is working on, but they are and very diligently working on pushing Kendama to it's limits, while preserving the Kendama-Do (Martial Art) aspect that JKA is founded on.

    First, freestyle.
    At the 40th Anniversary event, JKA held their first ever Freestyle Kendama event, and many players from around the world were surprised to find many rules and regulations regarding freestyle.

    Please remember that the idea behind JKA's competitive style is that there should be a clear-cut winner, and that competitions naturally have rules that people need to follow.

    And in my personal opinion, the word "freestyle" should not have been used when naming this competition. There seems to be a huge misunderstanding here (which took me a while to figure out) that in Japan, people think "freestyle" = "western style". But freestyle really means, getting up on stage and showing the judges what come to mind on the spot, wowing the audience and moving from trick to trick even if you miss and the trick didn't go as planned (missing a spike and going into handroll or spacewalk).

    They should have used "routine" or "run" or "performance" instead. Everyone plans out a run before hand, and the runs are recorded previous to entry and the points are calculated. What the judges do on that day is decide if they tricks are clean/sketch/missed.

    This is what JKA has in mind when they say 'freestyle'

    This isn't freestyle at all, but this is JKA's idea of performance kendama.

    I like to think of it as being similar to an ice skating routine.

    (I had the honor of translating at the JKA festa last year and they gave me a run-down of the 'performance' point system)

    Each part of a trick has a certain number of points. I can't give you the numbers off the top of my head, but lets say Juggle is 10, cups are 1, spikes are 5, downspikes are 7, lighthouse is 3, bird is 5, lunar is 7..etc.

    And you do Juggle spike, Juggle lighthouse, downspike, switch grip bird.

    That would be
    10 - juggle
    5 - Spike
    (10) - Juggle (but the second time you do a trick there are less points, maybe half?) so 5
    3 - Lighthouse
    7 - Downspike
    5 - Bird (but let's say you miss the bird, you get 1/3 of the points just for going for it) so 2
    This totals out to
    32 points.

    Now, putting whether this is a good system aside, everyone must agree that this would determine a clear-cut winner. It is a very new system, and they are trying to work out the kinks, so please be patient with them as they try and test their way of judging performances.

    Next, the evolution of tricks.
    JKA has created an entirely new testing system, basically an extension of the Dan system, called SLC or Skill Level Challenge.
    I'm not entirely sure if they are going to do things like certificates and what not for this system, but they are using these tricks in competition.
    And many (most) of these tricks are tricks that have been implemented from the current evolution of kendama.

    For example:
    Sweets Special
    Airplane, Tap 1.5 in.
    Penguin Airplane, Penguin Jstick
    Penguin Basecup, 1.5 flip to regular basecup, spike.
    Juggle spike.
    And the list goes on (and will continue to go on)

    What's cool about these tricks is that these JKA kids hit these tricks 10/10. The Sweets team went out to the Itami Kendama Dojo in Osaka, which is probably the most prestigious hardcore dojo in Japan, and these kids are lacing this tricks like its nothing. And what's even cooler is that these JKA kids, raised through the JKA system are KILLING it in KWC, the biggest influence in western kendama today.

    5th place, her name is Yukie Yao, and she freaking RIPS. And she's like 13.

    I'm rambling and I don't know if I got my point across well, but JKA is evolving while staying true to their roots in Japan and Japanese martial arts. It is an amazing system that nurtures development and growth, as well as education (teaching kids how to play kendama) and overall spreading Kendama love. We complain today that Kendama is dying out, but in the JKA, Kendama has never been dying, because the whole idea behind JKA is to create new players and push them to achieving things they weren't able to do yesterday. Sometimes we forget that we need to educate people and give people goals when playing Kendama, and that you don't have to lace trip tap trip jug downspike in order to be a decent player. And I think this is one reason a lot of Japanese kids stick with and enjoy playing kendama while a lot of western people end up putting kendama away because their friends have gotten so good that it's not fun anymore. I rambled again, I apologize but I hope someone takes the time to read this. Haha.

    (BTW: I'm from Hawaii and started playing after watching KenUSA videos, but I moved to Japan and joined JKA because I hate that there's this vague unseen wall between freestyle and JKA style kendama. My blood boils when people say they hate JKA and JKA style. It's kendama, there are different ways of playing, that makes it great, let's be accepting of all styles. bang bang, skrrt skrrt, i'm out)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
    Nov 28, 2016
  20. sorrywongnumber

    sorrywongnumber Honed Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    I had a terra-painted keyaki ozora, one of the best damas I ever had. Sadly it chipped while loads of playing time :(
     
    Nov 28, 2016