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Tama hole - Can it be too big? (poll)

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by goenKendama, Oct 12, 2019.

?

What size tama hole do you prefer?

  1. under 20mm

  2. 20mm-22mm

  3. over 22mm

  4. Doesn't really make a difference.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    My kendama journey started with a green JKA stickered TK16 Master and for a long time I thought that the hole size on it was "normal." The first time I played an Ozora I thought it was defective because the tama hole was so big. With the last few years bringing bigger everything including tama holes what do you guys think, have the holes gotten too big or are they about right?

    Here are some measurements checked at their largest diameter (right at the opening).
    TK16 17mm
    Catchy Air 18mm
    Meijin Takumi 20mm
    Ozora Taisei 20mm
    Decade mod 21.5mm
    Prefect 21.5mm
    Pop 21.5mm
    Slaydawg OG 21.5mm
    Ozora Reshape 22mm
    Active 22mm
    Viking 22mm
    Pineapple pro 24mm
     
    Oct 12, 2019
    5kwid and xplodit like this.
  2. xplodit

    xplodit Slayer

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Location:
    Memphis
    I played a Krom 8yr Bday, and the bevel was monstrous. I wish I had it to give the measurements, but I gave it away only after a couple weeks of playing with it. The bevel was so large that it affected the play dramatically. Muscle memory for even simple tricks like earth turns could not be trusted. It was impossible to go back and forth between other tamas without an adjustment period.
     
    Oct 12, 2019
    goenKendama likes this.
  3. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    This thread was generated as a result of me ignoring my own rule: check it first. The only kendama I picked up at NAKO was a Sol bamboo ken and a Pineapple pro tama. I can't do one of my favorite tricks at all; slip grip special (ring stall). At 24mm it swallows the Sol slip grip with only 2 points of sloppy contact. It was the last day of the event and I didn't even string it until I was back in Japan; really need to pay more attention to what I'm doing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
    Oct 12, 2019
    slothymane likes this.
  4. Ghost Fox

    Ghost Fox n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2018
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Terra prefect is the best size I thought not to small not to big. I hated the KROM slaydawg 2 it was massive and I felt like I was re-learning bird all over again due to the bevel size
     
    Oct 14, 2019
  5. Qonnor

    Qonnor Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Measured last night. Looks like the DWI V2 is right at 22mm. That said, mines pretty heavily seshed so I could be wrong.
     
    Oct 15, 2019
  6. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Too large is definitely a thing. Makes for strange birds, and lighthouse/lunar can topple over in the hole.

    KWC actually defines a max bevel size for competition approved damas, iirc it is the size of a 100JPY coin (22.6mm)

    EDIT: apparently its actually a 10 JPY coin, at 23.5 mm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    Oct 15, 2019
    KeeganS likes this.
  7. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    That's fun to know. I had to go pull out my coins and calipers and check. I was getting 22.43-22.56mm for 100 yen and 22mm on the nose for 5 yen (brass with hole).
     
    Oct 15, 2019
  8. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I honestly just did a quick search for '100 JPY coin diameter', and duckduckgo gave me the 22.6 mm measurement.

    UPDATE! I just asked Rod, and he says its actually a 10 JPY coin. Duckduckgo is telling me that diameter is 23.5 mm. My mistake, I'll include an edit in my post above.
     
    Oct 15, 2019
  9. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Ah geez, got to drag out the calipers again. :D Yep, got 23.5mm but I still think that's a gaping maw of a hole. (also means that the Pineapple tama I have wouldn't be accepted at 24mm)
     
    Oct 15, 2019
  10. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    And then there are these monsters from Lunatac.

     
    Oct 15, 2019
  11. Qonnor

    Qonnor Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Wooooooow. At this point in my kendama journey, bevel size isn't mattering a whole lot to me so it's kind of easy to discount the impact it has on newer players. Picking up a Pop for the first time genuinely opened doors for me.

    One thing we're not talking about it the size of the spike compared to the size of the bevel. While a Pop might have a smaller bevel than a Pineapple Pro mod, the spike size ratio should, in theory, make it feel larger.
     
    Oct 16, 2019
  12. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    I'm thinking that the diameter of the spike relative to the diameter of the inner hole is more the comparison to think of rather than related to the bevel. Large inner holes with thin spikes feel "sloppy" to me and I tend to have the ken jump out when I'm not expecting it. I probably should have found a way to include that in this poll too. For me it's a 2 part question since the bevel is primarily stall related and the inner hole is the spike control area. I also understand that the ramp of the bevel leads to the inner hole and aids with spiking. It's why you'll see 2 kinds of bevels in general, high angle and low angle.
     
    Oct 16, 2019
  13. Qonnor

    Qonnor Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Ahh good point sir! Do you find you have a preference on bevel angle? My assumption is that a low angle bevel makes for better stalls
     
    Oct 17, 2019
  14. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I don't think the bevel angle affects stalls at all, since only the outer edge of the bevel will be resting on the ken. Its more an issue of spiking/control when spiked.

    Deep bevel: easier to spike, but less control when spiked (more room to wobble)
    Shallow bevel: harder to spike, but more control when spiked (less room to wobble).

    The ratio of inner hole diameter:spike diameter will affect this as well (as @goenKendama mentioned), but assuming that ratio stays constant and all else equal, I think what I wrote above will hold true.
     
    Oct 17, 2019
  15. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines

    I think perhaps the size/diameter of the bevel does to some extent effect stalls. Yes the stall point and just the rims of the hole touch but the width between those points I think adds stability to a point; it's like standing with your legs further apart, you're more stable. Wider on the cup rims is probably helpful but on the slip grip I've seen several ken/tama hole combos that are too wide for good contact.

     
    Oct 17, 2019
    htimSxelA likes this.
  16. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    As long as I'm good on the slip grip (ring stall) then I'm usually a happy camper. So it's not a specific size across all kendama but a ratio on a given kendama, all are different.
     
    Oct 17, 2019
  17. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I'd agree with that, my post above was more focused on the depth of the bevel (outer bevel diameter remaining constant).
     
    Oct 17, 2019
    goenKendama likes this.