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Kendamas Not "Made in China"?

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by BrettFromTibet, Apr 30, 2020.

  1. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    Just making it clear: This thread isn't necessarily all about kendamas "Made in the US/China/Canada," but about kendamas not made in *mainland* China. I think Mr. @BrettFromTibet's sentiments are as much about principle as they are about the quality of the finished product.

    That being said, a lot of countries next to or near China have very strong manufacturing industries as well.

    Check out Thailand and Vietnam; just to illustrate, Samsung have completely moved their cellphone manufacturing out of mainland China and into these countries. Maybe other kendama companies can make similar moves if they so desire.
     
    May 7, 2020
  2. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    It isn't easy. Kendamas are a tricky thing to manufacture, because of the tolerances demanded by modern players, and the complexity of the piece itself. It obviously isn't the most difficult thing to make out there, but getting it right consistently takes a good process, tooling, and operator skill.

    There are exceptions, but broadly speaking, a lot of woodworking shops that do spindle-work make products that have fairly high dimensional tolerances (think: stairway bannisters, furniture legs, that sort of thing). So retooling to make a kendama isn't that simple for those shops. Think about the quality of a novelty-dama you'd find in a Japanese market for $4. Thats maybe about what we're talking about, despite being a N American shop.. they just serve markets with different demands.

    On the other end of the spectrum, you have specialty CNC shops, but usually shops like that will do metal-work pretty exclusively. Simply put: you can charge a lot more to the sort of clients you'll get for metal-working projects, and metal is a lot easier/less messy/more consistent of a material to work with in many ways. Wood makes a mess and defects can lead to broken machinery, so a lot of shops won't touch it.

    So its this tricky thing, where you have to find someone that has capability to hit the tolerances, cares enough to do so consistently, and has prices reasonable enough to still have a marketable product at the end of the day.

    Going the DIY route to build up your own shop is a more ambitious route, the real question there is whether the market can sustain such a thing. RWB made the first serious stab at it (within N America, of course, manufacturers like Yamagata Koubou have been going for decades), but they eventually decided to move on and close down shop. Craft is the current front runner for N American dama-specific production, outside of craftsmen and businesses that are hand-turning kens old-school style (ie, hand-held chisels).

    @Emil Apostol ah, actually I believe the krom deluxe series was all made in Vietnam, and then some of the earlier Sol hardwood stuff... the product name of which I'm forgetting now. Sol Flow? I don't believe anyone is manufacturing there now though
     
    May 7, 2020
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  3. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

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    ^^ I guess TL;DR: it is certainly possible, people just have to want it enough (ie, vote with their dollars)
     
    May 7, 2020
  4. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

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    Yes, those were the Sol Flows! Anyway, that might be a nice compromise for OP. Not necessarily in China nor the US/Canada, but countries who have strong manufacturing industries.

    Of course in terms of sheer volume, no one can beat China. Expect an increase in product price should a company move manufacturing to another country due to a lower level of supply, as well as the costs that come with changing parts of one's supply chain.
     
    May 8, 2020
  5. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Yea, and additionally: trying to get a shop up to speed on the particulars that kendama players care about isn't easy. Working with a shop that already knows how to make a decent dama is a LOT easier than working with a shop that has never produced a kendama before. As a business, its a MUCH larger risk that you'll get something that fails QC checks, working with a brand new shop.
     
    May 8, 2020
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  6. BrettFromTibet

    BrettFromTibet Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    If anyone has not tried Legaxis kendamas, made in Japan, I would highly recommend checking them out. I have two of them and the quality of the maple wood, the woodworking, the laser cuts, the paint is all very fine. They have the real 'wabi sabi' zen of traditional Japanese design and quality. This one, the Sanshoku is a whirlwind machine and the tracking is incredible, a split w/ a ringed "bullseye" bevel. 71g ken, 77g tama.

    IMG_5278.JPG
     
    May 11, 2020
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  7. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    I like the legaxis paint, very playable without being overtly 'sticky', its nice
     
    May 11, 2020
  8. Fraxinus

    Fraxinus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Su Lab just announced that they switched production to Japan. I am a huge fan of their updated Sync shape. I agree that kendama deserves to have a great deal of attention put toward manufacturing, and that charging a lot for a mass produced kendama feels to go against the spirit of kendama. I will always support those companies who put the extra effort into making a quality product.
     
    Jun 6, 2020
  9. Instagrom3

    Instagrom3 Honed Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    just to add a little here as someone who is from vancouver and i get a small privilege of being able to visit the Terra Shop regularly. You dont know how many busted or tossed aside or holey kendamas alex has laying around, hours wasted turning say a very nice exotic wood dama only to have it split or crack. You have to imagine the frustration and unfortunetly that also factors into price somewhat.
    That being said i think youd be hard pressed to find a better handturned kendama on the market today that isnt made by Terra.
    If you have the know how, the tools and the skill to make a kendama it doesnt necessarily mean that kendama will actually play well.
    Id wager that half the battle with handturning a kendama is picking the woods that will work together and being able to put them together in a beautiful way but also making it play well.
    IMO anyone can learn to slap some wood together and put it on a lathe (with time of course) but learning to cut them in a way that makes them play well is another matter entirely.
     
    Jun 22, 2020
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  10. Ian McCay

    Ian McCay n00b

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2020
    No. It’s not “rude” it’s absolutely 100% normal. You would have to be insane to support China in any way shape or form at this point in time. Everyone on earth should be 100 percent stopping any and all manufacturing sourced at all from the communist toilet bowl of China, who not only literally destroyed the entire world but has committed every grievous atrocity against humanity imaginable. You think it’s ok for a 7 year old girl to have her guts removed alive and awake ? Then sold to
    The highest bidder ? To hell with China. I like most other people want nothing from China. What’s rude and insane is defending people
    Manufacturing a Japanese toy in China.
     
    Aug 2, 2020
  11. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

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    Jan 4, 2017
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    Philippines
    Tough luck for Made in US fans: Sweets no longer makes homegrowns. Came straight out of the owner's mouth.

     
    Nov 7, 2020
  12. Ochee3

    Ochee3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Location:
    Canada
    [QUOTE="htimSxelA : What does Nativ's solution look like? I haven't added one to my collection yet]

    Nativ packaging.jpeg

    Nativ packaging open.png

    Screenshots from Kendama France's recent "Nativ Dad Track Edit" on Youtube.
     
    Nov 9, 2020
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  13. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

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    Jan 4, 2017
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    BUMP!

    Okendama out of Latvia is teasing a line of maple natties made in Latvia.

     
    Jan 10, 2021
    goenKendama likes this.
  14. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

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    Mar 23, 2021
  15. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    For a discussion on what "hand-turned" means please check here.
     
    Mar 23, 2021
  16. Ghost Fox

    Ghost Fox n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2018
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Seems su lab kendama are also made in japan, I haven’t tried one yet but I will totally agree with this original post. I always thought it was kind of sad that we took a Japanese toy and then started mass producing them
    In communist China.
     
    Apr 9, 2021
  17. slothymane

    slothymane Slayer

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    Sep 28, 2017
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    Austria
    I kindly ask you to leave poltics out of here. If you agree with foreign politics or not is not topic of this thread
     
    Apr 9, 2021
  18. Ghost Fox

    Ghost Fox n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2018
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    San Francisco
    Hey, the topic of the tread is kendamas not made in China. China is a communist country, end of discussion. Su lab kendama are made in japan, and seeing as it looks like there is about 5 active users still on Downspike unfortunately, good luck talking to yourself
    Then, however this is probably why there are no users left on here. First day back on DS in year and won’t be coming back anytime soon. Good job sparkles.
     
    Apr 9, 2021
  19. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines


    For those who are interested, Su Lab is transitioning from Chinese made Kendamas with in-house paint, to having everything manufactured in Japan.
     
    Apr 20, 2021