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Dama Blitz! New Game for MKO 2018

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by CodyGriz, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Cheech_Sander

    Cheech_Sander Administrator Staff Member

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    Aug 19, 2016
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I heard timers will be for sale ;)
     
    Sep 28, 2018
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  2. TerraKendama

    TerraKendama Honed Member

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    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver BC
    ;)
     
    Oct 3, 2018
  3. Nick Lectura

    Nick Lectura Moderator Staff Member

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    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    hyped to try this one out! i've heard its a very stressful game (but in a good way i guess) lol
     
    Oct 10, 2018
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  4. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

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    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
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    It is good! You should definitely give it a go.

    QUESTION
    I'm putting a trick list together for the contest. It will be a best-of-3 single elimination tournament. Tricks must be easy, the goal is consistency, not taking a whole bunch of attempts to land it.
    -> Anyone have any suggestions for good tricks?
     
    Oct 10, 2018
  5. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Lighthouse In (or Tradespike)
    Downspike Down Earth
    Bird Flip In
    Airplane Jumping Stick
    Slip on Stick
    Spike Earth Turn
    Around Japan/the World
    Lunar In
    Stuntplane
    Spacewalk In
    Gunslinger Spike
     
    Oct 10, 2018
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  6. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

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    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Here are some from the versions we did at last month's event:
    X number of Moshikame
    Pull up spike
    Orbit
    Big cup, knee bounce, big cup
    Around the prefecture
    Pull up downspike
    Faster than gravity (spike version or lighthouse version)
    Handcuff
    Goldfish scoop
    Statue of Liberty
    Inward (reverse) swing spike (or reverse airplane)
     
    Oct 11, 2018
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  7. Jasper B.

    Jasper B. Slayer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Location:
    San Diego
    Around the world
    Swing Spike earth turn
    Airplane
    Pull up Lighthouse in
    Frying pan slip on stick
    Faster than gravity
    Bird in
    Big cup orbit big cup
    Gunslinger spike
    Juggle big cup, spike


    I chose these tricks because they are not too dificult so they fit a wider audience, but they still require a level of consistency that everyone needs to maintain a balanced match that is not too single sided.
     
    Oct 11, 2018
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  8. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Nice! Thanks everyone, keep em coming, feedback and suggestions are very crucial and appreciated.

    To give you an idea of what we're currently looking at, these are my faves from the lists above, many of them are in the list I have drawn up already (I'll publish that soon):

    Downspike (maybe Down Earth)
    Bird, Flip In
    Airplane Jumping Stick
    Spike, Earth Turn
    Stuntplane
    Gunslinger Spike
    Pull up spike
    Around the prefecture
    Inward (reverse) swing spike (or reverse airplane)
    Around the world
    Swing Spike, earth turn
    Airplane
    Pull up Lighthouse, in
    Juggle big cup, spike



    Generally, I think for a more serious contest format, tricks need to end on spike, or in (because it is arguably a more 'concrete' ending than a stall, or perhaps even a cup, though to a lesser extent).
    In addition, we've agreed to use a list of almost entirely basic tricks. There will be a few intermediate sort of tricks in the final rounds, but don't expect any tough ones on the list. We're designing for speed and consistency, not challenging tricks.

    I think Tricks like faster than gravity are tough for a contest, because speed is of huge importance. What happens if someone's tama pulls upwards just slightly on one of their attempts, but they spike it and hit the button? Do you call a foul on them? Etc.

    Since this is the first time DamaBlitz has been part of a large contest, I'd rather steer away from any grey areas in tricks. Maybe my thinking is overkill, but I'd rather be safe in the trick selection, and make sure the rest of the contest runs smoothly before adding trick complications. If it works well otherwise, then using more nuanced tricks would be a future goal.


    Some more info worth considering:, we have created two 'types' of tricks, read the explanation below, and then please post any new trick ideas you may have :)

    -----------------------------------
    There are two general ‘types’ of tricks: those that require a ‘reset’ after each turn, and those that have a ‘setup’ trick to start them.

    A ‘reset’ trick starts from the same position each time (eg ken grip, tama hanging), every single attempt you make will start from this position.
    A trick that includes a ‘setup’ trick is different. When you land the whole trick, you keep the kendama in the finishing position until the start of your next turn. On the first attempt of every turn (except the first turn), you will skip the setup part of the trick, since your kendama is already in position to attempt the rest of the trick that comes after the setup. If you miss that first attempt, you must perform the entire trick each subsequent try on that turn. The setup part of the trick is written in brackets (…) at the start of the trick.

    For example, consider these two tricks:
    - Swing spike - Reset
    - (Swing spike) - earth turn

    The first trick is a ‘reset’ trick: for every attempt, the player starts from scratch and attempts the swing spike again.
    The second trick includes a ‘setup’: the (swing spike). On their first turn, the player does the following: swing spike, earth turn. Once complete, they hit the clock, but keep the tama resting on the spike of their kendama. At the start of their next turn, the player can skip the ‘setup’ part of the trick, since the tama is already on spike. Instead, the player simply attempts the earth turn-- if successful they hit the clock, but if they miss, they must start from scratch, and perform the swing spike again before attempting the earth turn.

    In some sense, tricks that include a setup are like a more hardcore mode, since they reward consistency by allowing the player to skip the setup part of the trick. Having to attempt the setup takes more time, so it is a big advantage to land your tricks first try!

    With this in mind, you should be able to understand the difference between these two tricks:

    - Swing spike, earth turn - Reset
    - (Swing spike) earth turn
     
    Oct 12, 2018
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  9. Instagrom3

    Instagrom3 Honed Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Id like to see candle swing spike in this
     
    Oct 12, 2018
  10. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    The actual contest part of our event the other day, where people were going for prizes, we stayed away from stalls and balance tricks. For goofing around Dama Blitz later on we were trying out all sorts of tricks to see what the guys liked. Faster than Gravity, either to spike or lighthouse, has a couple of things that need to be clarified before using it. The slight up pull some reflexively do at the start of the trick and whether or not you can use your knees or not. For the lighthouse version there needed to be a pause to show that it "stuck." That's why a faster-than-gravity-ish trick like handcuff works; no pull up, knees don't matter and doesn't have to be balanced since it goes to spike.

    As a side note, the Moshikame trick starts from the big cup rather than doing a pullup so it eliminates goofs there.

     
    Oct 13, 2018
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  11. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver


    Here is a potential trick list! This isn't finalized yet, but the final version will probably look something like this.
    As I said, its mainly simple tricks, speed and consistency is the challenge here!

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    MKO DamaBlitz Tricks
    1. Pull up spike - Reset
    2. Swing spike - Reset
    3. Down spike - Reset
    4. Inward swing spike - Reset
    5. (Swing spike) - earth turn
    6. (Swing spike) - gunslinger spike
    7. Around the world (big, little, bottom, spike) - Reset
    8. Airplane - Reset
    9. 1-turn airplane - Reset
    10. (Airplane) - J-stick
    11. (Airplane) - inward J-stick
    12. Pull-up Lighthouse, in - Reset

      Tricks to add later:
    13. Stuntplane, Fasthand to spike - Reset
    14. 1-turn swap spike - Reset
    15. (Swing spike) flip to bird, flip to spike
    16. (Swing spike) - Whirlwind
    17. 2-turn airplane - Reset
    18. 2-turn lighthouse, in - Reset
    19. Candlestick, spike - Reset
    20. (Swing spike) - juggle spike
    21. Spacewalk swap spike - Reset
    22. Airplane - 1.5 Swap spike - Reset
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    And here is a look at the basic rules:


    DAMA BLITZ
    A fast-paced consistency battle game

    Basic Rules:
    Setup:
    - Dama Blitz is a two player game
    - Choose a trick
    - Decide who is going first (P1)
    - Set the clock to 1:00 per side (see Setting the Clock below)
    - Set the clock paddle to the ‘up’ position for the player who is first

    Begin playing:
    Once both players are ready, the player going second (P2) counts down “3, 2, 1, blitz!”

    As P2 says ”blitz”, they press the ‘► ll’ button on the clock, and this will start the countdown for P1. At the same time, P1 attempts the trick. If P1 misses, they try again, continuing until they are successful. After P1 lands the trick, they hit the clock paddle, switching the countdown to P2’s side. Once the paddle is hit, P2 can begin their attempt at the trick. Just like with P1, P2 continues to attempt the trick until they are successful, at which point they hit the clock paddle to pass the countdown back to P1.

    End of match:
    This back-and-forth continues until one player runs out of time on the clock. The other player is the winner!

    Notes:
    - The clock must be hit after the trick is landed. Any early / erroneous hits earn the offending player a disqualification from the match
    - A player cannot start their trick attempt until the other player has hit the clock paddle. No early starts!

    Trick selection
    :
    There are two general ‘types’ of tricks: those that require a ‘reset’ after each turn, and those that have a ‘setup’ trick to start them.
    A ‘reset’ trick starts from the same position each time (eg ken grip, tama hanging), every single attempt you make will start from this position.
    A trick that includes a ‘setup’ trick is different. When you land the whole trick, you keep the kendama in the finishing position until the start of your next turn. On the first attempt of every turn (except the first turn), you will skip the setup part of the trick, since your kendama is already in position to attempt the rest of the trick that comes after the setup. If you miss that first attempt, you must perform the entire trick each subsequent try on that turn. The setup trick is written in brackets (…) at the start of the trick.

    For example, consider these two tricks:
    - Swing spike - Reset
    - (Swing spike) - earth turn

    The first trick is a ‘reset’ trick: for every attempt, the player starts from scratch and attempts the swing spike again.
    The second trick includes a ‘setup’: the (swing spike). On their first turn, the player does the following: swing spike, earth turn. Once complete, they hit the clock, but keep the tama resting on the spike of their kendama. At the start of their next turn, the player can skip the ‘setup’ part of the trick, since the tama is already on spike. Instead, the player simply attempts the earth turn; if successful they hit the clock. But if they miss, then they must start from scratch, and perform the swing spike again before attempting the earth turn!

    In some sense, tricks that include a setup are like a more hardcore mode, since they reward consistency by allowing the player to skip the setup part of the trick. Having to attempt the setup takes more time, so it is a big advantage to land your tricks first try!

    With this in mind, you should be able to understand the difference between these two tricks:
    - Swing spike, earth turn - Reset
    - (Swing spike) earth turn
     
    Oct 24, 2018
  12. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    You might consider not specifying the order for Around the World since not everyone runs the sequence Big, Small, Base, Spike but rather Small, Big, Base, Spike.

    There doesn't appear to be a mention regarding the free hand nearest the button being an advantage or hovering over the button while doing the trick as mentioned in previous posts. We ran into both and had to make adjustments for them.

    Will you be pulling tricks out of a hat, analog style or have a trick generator using some app?
     
    Oct 24, 2018
  13. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Yea, generally whichever cup you'd like to start with, but base cup last is good in my books. I put the sequence just to be a reference that its 'each cup, then spike'.

    I'm hoping we can find something to put that clocks on at the MKO that fixes the closer-hand problem. I've found that a tripod works well actually, if the players sort of face eachother with it between them, then neither has an advantage.

    With hand-hovering, I don't think we'll have a specific rule against it. If someone is too quick or hits it without landing the trick, thats a round forfeiture. So I think the risk of twitching to hit it too easily will outweigh the benefits of hitting it just a little quicker.

    I appreciate the input! We'll be explaining the rules when the contest starts of course, so a lot of this will be explained orally, not through written handouts or anything like that. I want to emphasize good sportsmanship and conduct, and I think part of that could be not 'hoverhanding'.

    @Joshua Flow Grove made a good point to me, with this contest being an introduction to the game for a lot of players, that it is a great chance to put the idea of respect and sportsmanship out there. I think he's right, and I think with how fast damablitz can play out, its a good thing to emphasize. It'll run much more smoothly if people are focused and giving their opponent respect/attention.
     
    Oct 25, 2018
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  14. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Oh! Forgot to answer this, from what I hear, Sweets crew has procured a spinning wheel. So we're spinning for tricks! Price is Right rules.
     
    Oct 25, 2018
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  15. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    @htimSxelA I've sketched out some plans for a clock holder that could be positioned between the players. That would be ideal to fix the close hand problem but all the physical clocks I've seen only show numbers on one side. That means if a player is on the back side of the clock he won't have any idea of the time remaining. That's one plus for the timer/clock apps on a tablet. While there is no physical button the greater visibility from all sides is better.

    We've done Blitz at 3 events now and this weekend will be the fourth for us though this time it will be with the Harajuku Kendama Club in Tokyo which will make the explanations . . . interesting. Since it's our first event we'll just be goofing off but once we see if they take to the format hopefully we'll be able to contest-ify it later on with prizes.

    Joshua's point is a good one and is the reason I'm going to try and bring Blitz to the JKA since it also promotes consistency which is kind of their "thing" along with the Kendama-dō aspects which include respect etc. I'm hopeful they'll see the benefits.

    I've also made a number of random item generator lists with various levels of tricks. One that I like removes previous tricks from the list as they are used so you don't repeat. Random Name Picker
     
    Oct 25, 2018
  16. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    @htimSxelA Just wanted to touch base for a possible update now that the MKO version of Dama Blitz is history. Any chance you could give us an update on what worked or didn't and things you think would make it better?
     
    Dec 31, 2018
  17. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    We ran this again at a recent event and the feedback was that it was over too soon. The one and done method means there are a number of folks that don't get but one shot (1 trick) and then are out. Does anyone use best 2 of 3 tricks to determine a winner of a round?
     
    May 4, 2019
  18. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Oh, missed your previous post as well! Here is a little update:

    A single match is indeed super fast. We usually run a best 2-of-3, and you can use a different trick for each round to keep it interesting.
    A simple trick list still seems best to me. More fun to race back and forth hitting earth turns, than to just watch someone grind a triple whirlwind for half their timer.
    The MKO matches were a hit, people were definitely stoked. I think initially people weren't sure what to make of it, but as they started their matches they found it to be fun. At least thats what I heard when I asked some competitors :p

    One thing we learned, was that putting the finals on stage was a bit of a bust. The reason I say that is the crowd wasn't able to see the timer, so they couldn't really gauge how the match was going. If you want to put dama blitz on a big stage and expect an audience, you'll need a giant timer, or a screen showing a zoomed in shot of the clock, or something.

    Otherwise things ran pretty smoothly! The contest was largely contestant-run, competitors were expected to find their opponents and battle it out, with little oversight. Afaik that didn't really lead to any issues.
     
    May 5, 2019
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