Downspike
Kendama Entertainment Network

A community for the balanced lifestyle.

Improvements to Kendama!

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by Jasper B., Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Jasper B.

    Jasper B. Slayer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Location:
    San Diego
    I am wondering what you all think are some improvements that kendama designs and shapes could use to create the ideal kendama!

    I am a little surprised that I couldn't find any threads combining all topics of kendama improvement into one thread. (If you know of one, be sure to let me know because that would be great!)

    Some similar threads are:
    Improving the Kendama Shape
    Future Kendama
    Best Kendama Shape
    Oversized Tamas

    In this thread I would like to discuss the improvements we need to the over all design of kendamas, and some basic shapes that will fit the style of a large group of kendama players. Maybe one smart mind on DownSpike will find or create the one shape to end them all!

    Some recent kendama shapes have featured larger cups, wider sarados, slightly bigger kens or tamas, and modifications to the base cup or spike areas.


    Some examples:
    KUSA Shift and Slim: Maximized cup size, larger tama, refined shape

    Sweets Prime: Larger cups, slimmer sword, slimmer+wider sarado

    Krom 1%: Larger by a small fraction, larger cups, base cup hole

    Aynedter Mod: Larger cups, tama, ken, 1.5 base cup hole, swoop

    Yumu Eclipse: Huge cups, slimmer sword, unique slip stop

    Krom Slaydawg: larger overall, 3% larger tama, chunky ken.

    Analog Squab: Big cups, smooth shape, balanced ken.




    All of these kendamas mentioned, plus many other new kendamas made recently all promote these new improvements, but all of these kendamas seem to lack something. Our kendamas at this point may seem almost ideal, but I still believe we are far from it. Kendamas still have room for growth and perfection, and one day some kendama company is going to combine all of these progressions into one amazing kendama.

    Now to the maximum:
    -The largest cups we have seen that are competition approved have to be the KUSA Shift/Slims, Aynedter mods, Yumu Eclipse, and Krom 1%. These all have a fairly similar size which seems to be near the maximum.
    -The biggest competition approved kendama must be the KUSA Craft Plus, made in 2017, with one of the tallest kens, and 5% larger tama
    -Companies such as grain theory have made small adjustments such as adding a swoop, modifying the spike shape, and relieving weight from the base cup using the 1.5 bootyhole


    Some kendamas such as the sweets prime and krom pop seem to play amazing, and perform well, but one thing that is preventing the expansion of kendamas like these is size. At some point of using large cups, a standard size tama just doesn't fit right anymore. This is easily changed by making the tama larger. Once the tama is larger, the ken can be made larger too to some degree. Some people do not like the feel of larger kendamas, so it seems as if there needs to be maybe 3 types of kendamas to fit everybody's needs.


    Ideal types of kendamas for different play styles:
    -Big and chunky, good lunar balance because of mass in the sarado area
    -Slim and slightly larger, for better slinging capabilities, and a smooth feel
    -Standard for smaller hands, possibly going to be the budget kendama

    I believe that larger kens, and especially tamas are going to be the main thing that will be present in the next, or even farther future generations of kendama.
    Every company will have their own tweaks such as slip stop shape, swoops, base cup drill holes and other changes, and definitely woods.



    What do you think kendamas need to progress or create the ideal kendama?
    What is going to be the kendama of the future?
     
    Oct 15, 2018
  2. Fr3dMc

    Fr3dMc Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2017
    Location:
    Vancouver WA USA
    I would love to see a mass production resin Ken from any of the big Kendama companies.
     
    Oct 16, 2018
    Wendy Nugroho, LA111 and Danny Malto like this.
  3. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    The only thing about that would be quality control, which was basically the reason why Rizen resin kens had such a bad rep.
    Maybe a big manufacturer can accomplish it, but it’d still take a large amount of time for them to create enough for a large enough stock, which means a number of lower quality items would eventually slip through.
     
    Oct 16, 2018
  4. Fr3dMc

    Fr3dMc Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2017
    Location:
    Vancouver WA USA
    I know nothing about production but this makes sense. I feel at some point if Kendama wants to innovate it has to move beyond wood.
     
    Oct 16, 2018
    Wendy Nugroho likes this.
  5. Fr3dMc

    Fr3dMc Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2017
    Location:
    Vancouver WA USA
    Has anyone done a carbon fiber Kendama yet or Kevlar? At least as a proof of concept.
     
    Oct 16, 2018
    Con man likes this.
  6. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    No, from what I know, have a custom carbon fibre mould made isn't cheap, so you'd have to produce a lot of units. Kinda risky because you won't know how it plays until you've committed, and probably not cheap.

    Carbon fibre is strong and light, but it is weak against orthogonal impact damage. I don't know if it would stand up to modern play very well, and you can't really blue a carbon fibre chip back on... they more just splinter and explode.

    But I have thought it would be awesome to make one!!
     
    Oct 17, 2018
  7. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    Personally, I hope maple slowly but surely becomes the standard for kendama wood. Not trashing on Beech as I love beech damas, but Maple Kendamas have so much more value for money for me based on Longevity.
     
    Oct 28, 2018
    Matteo Schulz and Jasper B. like this.
  8. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    Lol if I may ask, what are your opinions on kens getting "slimmer" below the Sarado for slingers? Extreme example is the Craft Shift Slim shape, but Pops and Yumu Eclipses show similar characteristics. Rationale is to have easier slingerability, but isn't that already done with bigger cups on the Sarado?
     
    Nov 1, 2018
  9. Wendy Nugroho

    Wendy Nugroho Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Location:
    Indonesia
    interesting topic, but probably i will talk in somehow different perspective.

    I'm pretty sure DaO should become one of the candidate for future kendama. sadly i can't describe it well cause i don't have it. but i heard many good shit about it.

    They do really care to match the weight, that's matter a lot, unseen but affect the playability.

    The cups size is slightly bigger than ozora, probably +1% I'm not sure. somebody correct me please. IMG_20181103_180526_236.jpg IMG_20181103_180523_320.jpg IMG_20181103_180520_827.jpg IMG_20181103_180519_042.jpg

    pictures by @janskix103

    As we all know sling is lunar is against one each other, but this DaO can make sling honed and lunar honed in one single dama. that's another point plus for DaO.

    You can check these account @sammelkorn @janskix103 on instagram to see how DaO plays like.

    Wait, I'm not done talking.

    As the wave of kendama is getting bigger and bigger, more people will jump into kendama and if we are talking about the future of kendama, we can't just talking about the shape.

    As the demand of kendama increases, more wood will be cut. And we have to do something about this. Planting trees is not enough. A single tree need several years to grow and get strong enough to be used as kendama.

    But i think we have solution, at least as substitute. Bamboo. Yes, it happened already. There are bamboo kendamas available already and I think it's a good idea. Because, bamboo is relatively cheaper than many other woods (price may varies) and bamboo regenerate pretty fast compared to other trees.

    Bamboo is the future, and probably hemp DSC_0238.JPG i took this picture several hours ago while thinking about writing this (as a draft) it's a bamboo forrest in a village in Indonesia, just 15 minutes from my house.
     
    Nov 3, 2018
    OEZ, Ochee3 and nimron13 like this.
  10. Wendy Nugroho

    Wendy Nugroho Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Location:
    Indonesia
    I'm with you, buddy. need to care more about our mother earth.
     
    Nov 3, 2018
  11. Jasper B.

    Jasper B. Slayer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Location:
    San Diego
    I feel like most companies need to adopt a slimmer shape because it just makes so many tricks easier. Some people will never want to play slim shapes because they prefer the feel of a chunkier ken. Slimmer kens definitely provide an advantage for slingers, but not to the point to completely change kendama play.
     
    Nov 4, 2018
  12. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Personally I hope there's not a mass movement toward slim kens. Variety is nice and though I do have a couple of slim ken models they aren't my favorite. However I still throw them into the mix every once in a while to keep things interesting, see if my preferences have changed, or because they do something better than some other kendama and I need that ability.
     
    Nov 4, 2018
    Emil Apostol and Jasper B. like this.
  13. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    Concur! Again, just my personal preference, but slim kens feel flimsy in my hand and I much like chunkier kens in comparison. Also, a less than ideal experience that I had with an OG Craft Slim (which I eventually sold) didn't do much to change my mind.
     
    Nov 5, 2018
    goenKendama likes this.