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Lunar madness- What defines Cup point of no return

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by Dean Manning, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. Dean Manning

    Dean Manning Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Location:
    Akron Ohio
    Ok so you all have probably been seeing A LOT of lunar videos lately due to lunatacs account posts. I'm just wondering how the heck those guys can whip tricks like a double tre lunar and land it and it just STICKS. Like my lunar flips I can land but it usually just falls off because lunars are delicate. Don't get me started with stilt flips but.. just wondering when is my ken too hard to use for lunars? I've seen the term like point of no return or like a kendama is Honed for lunar. I'd like to know how to keep my cups from going bad or whatever? Like not to hit the no return
     
    Jan 8, 2017
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  2. Sbermea22

    Sbermea22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    What really fucks up sarados is pushing the cups down in order to keep them on the spike. But sometimes that's necessary to get them down a bit bc freshies usually have short spike. Some companies are even giving you a short spike so by the time it's broken in it'll be at that perfect sarado spot i.e. KMZ, KUSA, DWI, etc the point of no return is really just when the sarado goes below the string hole of the spike. Then when the string is pulled the cups will shoot up and pop off the spike or you could just string it through the spike hole but then one turns are effected negatively. Whenever one of my kens hits a perfect sarado spot I put a dot of glue. USE ONLY A DOT, bc if you use more then the cups won't come off again. A little dot is easy to break in case I wanna change string but strong enough to not move the cups when playing.
     
    Jan 8, 2017
  3. Instagrom3

    Instagrom3 Honed Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    probably got something to do with them using Lunatac products!

    seriously though, a lot of it is just the weight of your kendama, depending on how heavy/light your sarado and spike are could influence your kendamas ability to do lunars, after that its basically just patience and practice until you can do those tricks.

    another tip is check your tamas shape, its hard to explain but sometimes your tama isn't perfectly round and that can cause your lighthouses or lunars, even stilts to not be able to sit properly and simply fall off even when it feels like you have a trick locked in.

    also if you have any chips on your cups that would also be an issue...
     
    Jan 8, 2017
  4. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Gotta disagree with @Sbermea22 here, I see no issue with shoving cups down as HARD as possible. Just ask @RodDama, he regularly does handstands with all of his weight pushing the cups down.

    I mean, if the dama you have is poorly made so that the cups can slip crazy low (below the string hole like you mentioned), then that an be an issue. If you want to avoid that entirely buy from a brand that isn't made in china/Taiwan.

    Like @Instagrom3 said, Tama and cup rim roundness is a big factor. Put the big cup up against the tama, it should make contact 100% of the way around the cup rim. Anything less, and you'll have a point where the ken will be able to tip. This is a picky variable that an change even with temperature or humidity (wood expansion/contraction), so while higher end damas will often not be affected as much, any dama can fail this test.

    Otherwise, a heavy Sarado is ideal for Lunars.

    There really isn't some secret otherwise, just practice and skill!
     
    Jan 8, 2017
  5. Sbermea22

    Sbermea22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    @htimSxelA i kinda misread his question I thought he was asking how to keep from making the sarado from going past the point of no return. But that's wild that rod does that the first time that I tried to balance all my weight on the cups (I'm 195lbs) I snapped that bitch in half and landed on my ass. But the glue thing I think is a solid tip bc I have some damas where the sarado always slips off and I really don't want them any lower so I glue em to keep the lunar balance prime.
     
    Jan 8, 2017
  6. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    hahaha man I'm always worried thats gonna happen when I put all my weight on em. I'm about 185-190, but I haven't snapped one yet.
    I saw Rod snap a sarado once, but it was one of his early Roddama handturned pieces, and the ken profile had a bump that caused a major pressure point, so I guess its was to be expected.

    Your advice about one dot of glue is on point though, I usually use basic white school glue for the job. It locks on, but not so much that the sarado isn't removable later. Works well!
     
    Jan 8, 2017
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  7. SouthpawTRK

    SouthpawTRK Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    I feel that the players that can land various Lunar variations; it's because they are that good! I also feel that they can land them so purely, that is what makes them "stick"; whether it's a painted or natty tama. I landed my first double Lunar flip the other day and it literally just stuck; I was in complete shock to say the least. I attribute it to the design of the kendama, the paint and all the stars aligned for the perfect flip and landing.
     
    Jan 8, 2017
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  8. DSang326

    DSang326 n00b

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Spokane WA
    Dub lunar tre is a really fun trick when you can figure it out. It's just finding that perfect catch point and that lunar will slap on the tama and stay right where it is. Really just takes tons and tons of practice
     
    Jan 8, 2017
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  9. Dean Manning

    Dean Manning Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Location:
    Akron Ohio
    Big help! Thanks for clearing it up. Also is there a video of Rod doing the hand stand. Hahaha that's insane
     
    Jan 8, 2017
  10. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    @RodDama take a pic of your negikomo (sp?) shirt

    EDIT: also worth mentioning, sometimes when a lunar just lands with full cup contact, it can smack into place pretty well. Especially with a sticky tama. Gotta get honed in and snipe them at the right moment
     
    Jan 8, 2017
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  11. Aloysius_hung_

    Aloysius_hung_ Honed Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Location:
    Earth
    May be because they got a setup with heavy cups so the ken is hones for lunars and also because of sticky paint.
     
    Jan 9, 2017
  12. Blake W.

    Blake W. Honed Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    I have one zen that has been pushed so far down that it has ceased to be playable for anything except lunars....strange world
     
    Jan 9, 2017
  13. 7Cabbages

    7Cabbages Slayer

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Location:
    California City
    I believe you... I have a couple completely glued setups... REGRETS. I usually string through the spike hole and the only problem is that the extra thickness from the string causes the cups to be a bit higher. I usually have no problems with one turns (sometimes the string does wrap along the long way of the ken)
     
    Jan 9, 2017
  14. Steezdiaz

    Steezdiaz Slayer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    Location:
    Chico, CA
    Yeah, some people are just ridiculously good at lunars :D

    #goals
     
    Jan 9, 2017
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  15. MacCole999

    MacCole999 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Location:
    Warrenton , va
    Beeswax / coconut oil for ken? Maybe lemon oil ??
    If tama has paint such as the prime dot burst should i put somthing on that for more tack? Or will the ken with beeswax or oil be enough

    Why can’t i lunar lol..
    Am i dumb to the lunar or is it the ken/ paint/ weight?
    When ordering from sweets ,can i ask for a better lunar balence ken.


    Answer these with experience without me getting 7 answers on threads that seem iffy
     
    Feb 7, 2020
  16. Dylan Spencer

    Dylan Spencer n00b

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2020
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    I think lunars on a prime are a little bit harder in my opinion. The balance is a tiny bit funky. Ecspecally from how far out the cups sit. One of my biggest tips for them is to just barley swing the ken. Just enough for that 90 degree spin and right after it passes straight up and down pop it up and land at the apex. I like to tilt the bev forwards me. Also try and catch in between your chest and belly button
     
    Feb 7, 2020
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  17. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines


    @MacCole999 There are a number of lunar related threads as well as paint related you can find using the Search function. Here are a few that might answer some questions.

    First Lunar . . . Almost
    Lunar Damas
    What is a Lunar?

    Paint Types
    Best Paint
    Stickiest paint you've ever played?
    Your opinion on sticky paint, bigger cups. . .

    There are a lot of useful posts in the Beginner's section as well. As for the specific questions maybe you'll find something here:
    "Beeswax/coconut oil . . . " Shades of Grain

    "If tama has paint such as the prime dot burst should i put somthing on that for more tack?" - wouldn't personally recommend wood finisher (wax/oils) on painted tama but I've read in a post there was a "sticky" beeswax that was for sale in Japan for a while for just that.

    "Why can’t i lunar lol.." - could be the kendama but also you just need some tips and a lot more practice. (insert the whole "knees" thing here :D )

    "Am i dumb to the lunar or is it the ken/ paint/ weight?" - Short answer Yes. . . weight distribution and paint can have significant effects. More ken weight over the tama is usually the key so either a heavier sarado or it sitting much lower along the ken's spike will usually help. If you can set your ken on the tama in Lunar (big cup on the tama) and move it around easily without it dropping then you've probably got a pretty good Lunar setup. If it's a bit twitchy but you can still hold it fine when it's still, likely you can still do Lunars with adequate practice. Cup size relative to tama diameter is also a "thing" hence the ice cream scoop-sized cups you see on some kendama. ;)

    "When ordering from sweets ,can i ask for a better lunar balence ken." - Some companies are able to help out with special requests but not all.
     
    Feb 7, 2020
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  18. MacCole999

    MacCole999 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Location:
    Warrenton , va
    THis is my bible for the next couple days thanks
     
    Feb 7, 2020
  19. JHard502710

    JHard502710 Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Location:
    Louisville, Ky
    Haha sorry I’m quoting something from almost 3yrs ago Alex..! ..but I’ve had experience with this with my OnLy Craft Ken I bought from KUSA with the cups sliding down past the string hole almost immediately. Probably after only a month of play or so.. I DiD scoop the Slim version so the spike is skinnier and may explain the cup slippage, but shouldn’t be the excuse really. It’s an $80+ Kendama USA made that just sits on my shelf now unfortunately..
     
    Feb 9, 2020
  20. slothymane

    slothymane Slayer

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Location:
    Austria
    Tiny piece of griptape between sarado and spike and you'll be back on it
     
    Feb 10, 2020
    goenKendama likes this.