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Pro/cons/howtodo oiling/beeswaxing kens and tamas

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by BlueCheezee, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. BlueCheezee

    BlueCheezee n00b

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Italy
    Hi guys, I'm curious about this types of treatments, also if any of you tried the kenditioner from Aynedter feedback woul be appriciated...
    Just wondering on how make kens last longer if is possible trough this and how to do it cause I've searched but didn't find much about...

    Thanks guys✌️
     
    Jan 22, 2017
  2. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    If you oil a ken or tama it will darken up, and maybe absorb less dirt in the long run. Adding it to the tama or cups can make a setup have better stick for tama balance tricks, but that sorta depends on what type of oil you're applying, and how much.
     
    Jan 22, 2017
  3. BlueCheezee

    BlueCheezee n00b

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Italy
    I'm a noob to this so If you can be so kind to point me in the right direction I'll try out something on spare kens
     
    Jan 23, 2017
  4. Almostgets

    Almostgets Slayer

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    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    The 'Go
    This has been a huge question of mine as well. I didn't want to risk losing any kendamas to my inexperience. For what it's worth, I've spent the last few weeks breaking in an ash natty. The sweat has greatly improved the slip, and I believe my skills as well. I'd almost recommend trying without it first.
     
    Jan 23, 2017
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  5. Congarranza

    Congarranza DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Camarillo, CA
    I agree. Break Kendamas in by jamming them. I only added coconut oil to my beechwood ken when it was looking dry and I saw some microsplinterring happening at the cup rims. It was new at the beginning of November and I just revived it late January.
     
    Jan 23, 2017
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  6. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Check the 'DAMA HACKS' thread, there's a bunch of info and discussion about oiling kens in there
     
    Jan 23, 2017
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  7. BlueCheezee

    BlueCheezee n00b

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Italy
    Yeah I agree too...but my question was how to make my kens last longer with some sort of oil or with other products maybe similar to KENDITIONER...
     
    Jan 24, 2017
  8. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    @BlueCheezee I've tried several waxes on a number of different types of woods with pretty varied results. Nearly all of them have darkened the wood considerably. On most woods I've tried Briwax doesn't soak in as well and leaves the wood kind of slick even after applying heat to try and soak it in. The exception was Birch where it seemed to do OK and left the setup still similar to the original feel.

    I've had better luck with BEE KIND - Natural Beeswax Finisher's Formula which seems to have more oils and soaks in better. I've even tried leather waterproofing that contains beeswax and lanolin which worked OK on some woods. Also normal wood stain has worked for me as a way to keep the ken looking nice without changing the handling characteristics.

     
    Jan 24, 2017
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  9. Congarranza

    Congarranza DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Camarillo, CA
    With all due respect I only recommend all natural pure ingredients. A pure bee's wax, organic virgin UNrefined coconut oil, unscented pure shea butter, hemp oil, etc. I mention this because you don't want to absorb chemicals through your sweaty hands. Occasionally these oils in finishers are of a petrol base. Stick to ingredients that are safe and organic.

    Use you judgement wisely @BlueCheezee. I only applied the coconut oil because the wood looked dry and frail. My winter was a pretty dry season (Southern California) until just a week or so ago. I added a third coat and noticed the oil took longer to be absorbed, so I'll consider that my last coat until the ken asks for it in the future.

    Along with progressing through learning new kendama tricks, you will progress in kendama maintenance to help them last as long as they can. It takes practice through trial and error. But it's inevitable that you will destroy all damas.

    Lastly be a little more specific. You want them to last longer: what does that mean!? What problems have you had. Address the specific problem with this community and we can chime in and brainstorm a potential solution for you.
     
    Jan 24, 2017
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  10. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I wouldn't expect adding a finish to make a kendama last longer, persay. With most wood products, a finish WILL help the product last longer, since the biggest risks in that product being damaged are things like local climate, water damage, etc. A finish will seal the wood, so it will not absorb water or other substances that could damage the wood.
    For example, I made some cutting boards last Xmas, and kept one for myself. I oiled it, so it wouldn't absorb any food, or water while being washed. Oil finishes eventually wear away, so recently (about a year after applying the original finish) I ran into some trouble with the board absorbing some water, and warping out slightly (crap!). This means I need to reapply a finish, to protect the cutting board and preserve it for future use.

    With a kendama, the biggest risk for damage is playing with it. I really don't think an oil or other finish will help much in preventing the denting/chipping damage that most players consider to be detrimental to a kendama, but it could help slow down the absorption of dirt / other undesirable stuff that can make a kendama look ratty and old.
    MAYBE by filling the wood pores with finish there is some added structural integrity, but that isn't what is meant when woodworkers say that a finish 'helps protect the wood', afaik. I would place my bets on the finish having little affect on the kendama's ability to take a beating, if any at all.

    TL;DR: Oils or other finishes will generally darken the wood, and may add some playability (eg beeswax adds stickyness), but they won't help against physical damage to the kendama.
     
    Jan 24, 2017
  11. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines

    I appreciate your opinion however you might want to read up on the products mentioned. The BEEKIND product in particular is food grade and can be used on cutting boards, salad bowls etc. BRIWAX is safe in its finished form. As per info from them: Toluene flashes off in about 45 seconds; however, we suggest three to five minutes for drying. Once dried, all that remains is natural beeswax and natural carnauba wax which are both edible.
     
    Jan 24, 2017
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  12. Congarranza

    Congarranza DS Legend

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    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Camarillo, CA
    Thanks, but I have my own items that are easy to find at a grocery store.
     
    Jan 24, 2017
  13. Peyton

    Peyton Member

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    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    Plymouth Minnesota
    I put coconut butter on my Homegrown natty birch. I really like the way it turned out. The color darkened, and then grain looks pretty sweet now. I'm going to wait a little bit to jam it but I think the butter will help with the tackiness. I added some pictures of the before and after.
     
    Jan 25, 2017
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  14. Peyton

    Peyton Member

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    Location:
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    IMG_0520.JPG Before
     
    Jan 25, 2017
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  15. Peyton

    Peyton Member

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    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    Plymouth Minnesota
    IMG_0522.JPG After
     
    Jan 25, 2017
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  16. Peyton

    Peyton Member

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    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    Plymouth Minnesota
    Another picture IMG_0523.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Jan 25, 2017
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  17. Congarranza

    Congarranza DS Legend

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    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Camarillo, CA
    92E603AC-65E1-458D-AA69-3A3C2825C8CA.jpg
    To add to this thread. First time adding coconut oil onto a maple ken. It does not darken as drastically as beechwood does. Before I added coconut oil to my F3, it was the same tone of wood as the maple Kaizen 2.0 on the left. Beechwood really soaked up well allover. Whereas the maple soaked relatively more in the cups, than the rest of the body of the ken. Definitely the property of side grain vs end grain of wood.
     
    Jan 30, 2017
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  18. BlueCheezee

    BlueCheezee n00b

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    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Italy
    Thanks ti all of you guys...
    @Congarranza I was asking myself if some sort of beeswaxy/oily thing can strongen up the wood, to make it more durable trought time and maybe add chipping resistance. Thanks for sharing the results!! the kaizen2.0 how it plays?! (Referred to the shape) I'll get mine in a week or so...same mod

    @Peyton THAT grain. Very nice!!

    @htimSxelA thanks man
     
    Jan 31, 2017
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  19. Congarranza

    Congarranza DS Legend

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    Jan 10, 2017
    Location:
    Camarillo, CA
    Maple 2.0 is an awesome setup. It's definately a tad beefier and heavier. It was finished off nicely with sharp edges. Gunslingers feel a little awkward. Paint is not too sticky. It grabs more than my ProClear so I'm into trying lighthouses. @BlueCheezee
     
    Jan 31, 2017
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  20. vibetechnique

    vibetechnique n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    If you are going to use coconut oil...you want to use fractionated coconut oil. It has the parts that can go rancid distilled out.
     
    Jun 22, 2020