Downspike
Kendama Entertainment Network

A community for the balanced lifestyle.

Seals and Associations?

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by AJPreciseKendama, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Sticky tama alone won't "guarantee victory in competitions," no argument there. Though if you equate size with "superior advantage" then I'd also suggest including stickiness in that formula; it does give an advantage.

    Not really debating the merits of sticky vs not sticky in competitions or in general, only commenting on the ideas around "certifying" sporting gear for certified/sanctioned events. In this case JKA seals on certified kendama.
     
    Jan 10, 2017
    Stuart Barron likes this.
  2. azleonhart

    azleonhart Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    @goenKendama, i generally equate Gloken's box method to the MLB regulation pertaining baseball bats.

    Rule 1.10(a) of the MLB states:
    "The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2.61 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. The bat shall be one piece of solid wood."

    In parallel, what Gloken does is the same.
    "The ken shall not be bigger than x inches" and so on, so forth.
    In regards to sticky tamas, it's again parallel to MLB's ruling on corked bats.
    Sure, corked bats are lighter, thus increasing the swing speed, but it has been proven to not provide an advantage over a normal bat.

    In conclusion, the JKA method is precise, but perhaps too precise.
    The Gloken method provides some room to play with sizes, and i believe it's a much welcomed move from them.
     
    Jan 10, 2017
    Stuart Barron and cbwalsh24 like this.
  3. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    @azleonhart I appreciate your analogy and understand your opinion.
     
    Jan 10, 2017
  4. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Companies that were asked to sponsor the JKA 40th contest were each given up to 300 of those 40th seals, to put on products that they could sell at the event (and leftover product could be sold later). Sweets was a sponsor, along with TK16, Ozora, Shin Fuji, Terra, and Croix (I think that was it?).

    There were 12 Terra hadnturned kens with the JKA seal, 11 were ash with purpheart stripes:
    Screen Shot 2017-01-11 at 2.12.55 AM.png

    The last one is this one:
    Screen Shot 2017-01-11 at 2.16.11 AM.png

    This Croix handturned kendama also has a JKA 40th seal on the opposite side. Its made from bloodwood and B&W ebony

    Screen Shot 2017-01-11 at 2.16.19 AM.png

    Stickier paint does make it easier to do some tricks, but if everyone has access to it, then I see no problem with it.
    There's another thread where this sort of conversation was happening as well, this is a copy/paste of one of my replies there:
    --------------
    So, [being able to use any kendama] does make a difference, but remember that everyone else can also use whatever dama they want for the contest too, so it isn't like any one competitor has an advantage over the rest.
    Did Bryson win KWC16 cause he was using some dope Sweets ken that was just honed af? No, he won because he was honed af. He probably had a few kens that he had practised with and broken in perfectly, but my guess is he would have placed very well in the contest even if he was using a trib-holed Kaleb ken with a black shin fuji tama on it. What I mean to say is, a kendama won't be the reason someone ends up winning, skills are what do that.


    Read more at http://www.downspike.com/threads/competition-legal-kens.486/#PjOCjq8hZocZ2f4j.99
    ----------------
     
    Jan 11, 2017
  5. Stuart Barron

    Stuart Barron Slayer

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2016
    Location:
    England
    As long as everyone remembers we are all here to have fun and play kendama then it should all be fine! I have nothing else to add apart from I love threads like this.
     
    Jan 11, 2017
  6. Tittle13

    Tittle13 n00b

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Location:
    Champaign, Illinois
    I'm not at all familiar with the competitive scene but are there multiple classes in competition? It sounds like, if not already in place, implementing a stock class with more strict regulations for the people who enjoy that in addition to an open class where anyone could use any Kendama in the US competitive scene would solve a lot of this debate. I used to race RC and even though we only had 10- 20 on a regular basis we would run 3-5 classes and it gave everyone a chance to do exactly what they wanted and compete in a few extra races that might not have been their forte and still have fun.
     
    Jan 11, 2017
  7. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    That's interesting information about the 40th anniversary seals, thank you.

    I think perhaps we've drifted off from the original topics of "Seals and Associations." You have my apologies if my posts were seen as being solely about sticky paint, they were not intended to be; there are sticky JKA certified kendama after all. Let's see if we can swing it back.

    The JKA, EKA, Gloken, and others use various metrics to decide what is or is not accepted in their events. They or may not share certain features between the various governing bodies but they are intended to level the playing field, to make sure "everyone has access" to a given feature/kendama.

    In an effort to keep things accessible for all JKA members it is quite possible that one of the limiting factors on full certification for a given kendama is price. In many places for many people TK16/Shinfuji/Ozora are priced within easier grasp than a Mugen/HG/GT/etc. If an organizing group is aiming for that level playing field they have to consider all possible players they want to reach, or at least the largest percentile they can reasonably manage, to be the most inclusive, to be accessible to the most players. I would imagine that associations and other governing bodies make their rule adjustments based on this.

    From what I know of the JKA one of their main efforts is to push consistency in all its players whether an individual challenge like level tests or in its competitions. Additional variables like sticky paint, size, weight, price, etc. increase the possibility of being less consistent from one kendama to the next. If one only looks at their own performance, independent of any outside force, some of these variables will effect consistency. Is it easier to hit a trick more consistently with a larger/stickier/magic kendama vs. a TK16, for most players, probably.

    Associations and organizers want to put some kind of control on things so that it's easier for both the players and the associations. Even sporting events with "Open" classes have some restrictions or it would just get nuts. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Associations/Governing bodies have different goals and go about things differently. That one or the other organization doesn't fit with a person's view on how it should be done doesn't take away from the validity of that organisation's efforts to meet its goals. There are a lot of different players out there, it's good to have variety.
     
    Jan 11, 2017
    htimSxelA and Stuart Barron like this.
  8. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Very true! At the end of the day, I guess with multiple options available, the players will decide their favourite, and support those events, associated companies, etc.

    Also, I can confirm that a max retail price is one of the stipulations put on JKA producers. Exactly as you said, keeping the certified kendamas affordable opens up the game to the largest audience. Interestingly, this was one of the factors that led to end of the OG mugen production. Iwatta wanted to produce kendamas with more beautiful paint jobs, but the max price set by the JKA didn't allow for it. The last of the OG mugens was a batch called the kotobuki: they are red or blue, with gold flakes in the paint, but they do not have JKA seals since the two parties could never come to a resolution.
     
    Jan 11, 2017
  9. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Interesting! At some competitions, there are different categories for beginner/intermediate/advanced, but that is a little bit different. To keep more in line with your example I would imagine different classes for JKA / jumbos / "does it fit in the box" / etc.
     
    Jan 11, 2017
    Tittle13 likes this.
  10. Tittle13

    Tittle13 n00b

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Location:
    Champaign, Illinois
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Seems like it could have useful application in competitive play. It would be a lot of fun having a jumbo class!
     
    Jan 11, 2017