Downspike
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The Real Penguin Cup

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by Kendama London, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Kendama London

    Kendama London Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Location:
    London, UK
    Can't find this question answered on the forum yet, so what do you think...?

    What's the proper way to catch the tama on penguin cup?...With your ken arm at waist height with your palm facing to your right (if you're right handed), or with the ken at chest height with your palm facing out in front of you?

    :confused:
     
    Nov 8, 2018
  2. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol Slayer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    I believe that as long as your palm is facing out, regardless of height, it counts as a penguin catch. People only catch penguin at face height because it's the most anatomically-comfortable position to catch penguin.
     
    Nov 8, 2018
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  3. Kendama London

    Kendama London Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Location:
    London, UK
    One is definitely more comfortable that the other, but the waist height catch definitely looks more impressive imo.

    I think what i'm trying to say is if two players were head to head in a formal competition and they both had to lace "Swing to penguin Catch." One player catches at waist height and the other player catches at chest/head height. Who would take the point? Or would both pass...

    I guess it would depend on the competition or on the judges' decision, but they're both so different in difficulty and what could follow as part of a combo etc...
     
    Nov 8, 2018
  4. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol Slayer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    I suggest deferring to those knowledgeable in the traditional way of playing. @goenKendama and @htimSxelA come to mind.
     
    Nov 8, 2018
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  5. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Just speaking from my own experience we've never required a location for Penguin catches (other than for comfort, people bend differently) but we always teach and point out videos like these where it tends to be caught high. For a competition unless it was specified, like the angle requirement for a downspike, I don't know that it matters too much. Then again I'd call the grips for Penguin spike here more of a modified sara grip but that may just be me. I don't put my middle finger against the sarado only the index finger. Also JG's hand position is not like I use, I tend to be more like Learn Kendama.





     
    Nov 8, 2018
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  6. KeeganS

    KeeganS Slayer

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    imo I see no difference between the two, neither one being the more 'correct' way to do it. They both are, regardless of grip/position.
    Take Stuntplane for instance, a number of tutorials recommend you put your finger on the string hole to help determine the tama's position above the spike to better complete the trick and an even greater number of players do so but many also do not execute the trick the way it is taught in tutorials, myself included (in my case keeping my fingers around the sides in typical tama grip fashion but with the tama hole facing downwards instead).
    Another example I can think of is Handlestall. I've seen some players land it with the cups parallel to the ground (the cups facing to/away from you horizontally) and others land it with the cups perpendicular to the ground (the cups facing up and down vertically). Neither is more correct than the other and both would be considered complete/passable in competition head to head.

    Like @goenKendama mentions above, many of these tutorials recommending you learn a trick a specific way (in this case catching it high for Penguin) is to help learn the trick's basics. Another example would be Lighthouse. Everyone typically pulls it up or swings it up and lands the ken with the big cup facing towards them as that position sets it up for any other trick that follows, but I cannot think of anywhere that explicitly states that that is the correct and only way to land the ken on the tama when doing Lighthouse (unless otherwise stated in certain events like possibly JKA exams).

    In many competitions that ask for Spike or Bird as the beginning part of the trick (i.e. Whirlwinds, Over Valleys, etc) swinging in or dry/pulling up are both can be considered correct UNLESS the trick specifically states it needs to be executed in a certain manner (ex. Swing Spike - Whirlwind, Swing Bird Over Valley).

    Like you mentioned, it's all based on preference and comfort between each player,
     
    Nov 8, 2018
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  7. Kendama London

    Kendama London Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Location:
    London, UK
    Thanks @goenKendama and @KeeganS - both great points.

    I'm definitely too much of a perfectionist at times!

    :)
     
    Nov 8, 2018
  8. KeeganS

    KeeganS Slayer

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    The different ways to catch a Penguin trick in any grip (ken, sara, tama) is dependent on what trick you want to land.
    It's easier to land Penguin Lunar with your palm facing directly away from you than it is with your palm facing more towards your side, but either can be used when landing Penguin Spike or Base Cup.
    Then there's Super Penguin that's in (I believe) Around Canada that @htimSxelA is known to do and that's a whole other thing itself.
     
    Nov 8, 2018
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  9. Kendama London

    Kendama London Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Location:
    London, UK
    Totally with you. Not really explored peng loons or houses yet, but they look awesome. I love peng airplanes and J sticks, but it's a totally different grip to how I like to do peng cups.

    It's great to hear different opinions though thanks dude.
     
    Nov 8, 2018
  10. rhysgoespeace

    rhysgoespeace Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    UK
    I heard the easier type of penguin base cup be called ‘top catch base cup’ or something like that, but I dunno where from.
     
    Nov 8, 2018
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  11. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    *super top cup (which is a big cup catch). There are no penguins in canada ;)

    On a picky level, I consider anything caught above nipple-height to be 'top cup'. Same as above, Around Canada has a top cup, and a super top cup, but no penguin catches.
    But in general dama culture, a shoulder-height penguin catch is still considered penguin at this point in time.


    Relevant info: The name penguin comes from juggling, because doing a penguin catch makes you kinda look like a penguin. If you tried to catch juggling balls up high and still call it a penguin catch, any real juggler would tell you you're doing it wrong. The aesthetic is important to them, less so in dama
     
    Nov 8, 2018
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