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Worst trends in Kendama

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by Dæmon, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

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    The guys I met were professors at some university on Mindanao so I don't think they were quite that old. They'd have to be in their 80s+ to have recollections from that period if I've done my math correctly. ;)
     
    Feb 27, 2020
  2. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

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    This probably would be better covered in on of the JKA threads like JKA Kendamas or maybe JKA Dan Certification but I'll go ahead and put it here. (yes I'm rapping my own knuckles here but a brief break from the "worst" isn't necessarily a bad thing, see: Best Trends in Kendama :D ) . . .

    OK I've heard back from one of my JKA contacts regarding "around" tricks and string length. Apparently many of the basic tricks including Around the World appear in trick lists in literature from the Taisho period (over 100 years ago). The JKA allows for two variations of Around the World, the standard (small cup, big cup, base cup, spike) and (big cup, small cup, base cup, spike); only (base cup, spike) is a fixed progression. From this JKA director "I think the former order is smooth and natural moving, but some players do the trick with later order. I’m not sure why they play the trick like that."

    Regarding string length he says: " Minimum string length - There is no regulation for minimum string length. As you mentioned, short string would be advantageous for speed tricks. But it might be disadvantageous for other tricks. So players can choose the length as they like."

    On a side note one of the difficulties regarding long string lengths in competition is that no part of a kendama, including the string, may touch the ground. That is to say if a player catches very low, and their string touches the ground, the catch is voided.
     
    Mar 2, 2020
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  3. slothymane

    slothymane Slayer

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    This part is so interesting!
    Must be mad frustrating though if you juuuuust catch the tama and the judges tell you your whole line is void
     
    Mar 2, 2020
  4. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

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    Probably no worse than doing a line and getting tagged for brushing your shirt or called on handing when you're pretty sure you didn't. I've been called on that by 1 judge of 3 because his angle was weird. Kind of freaks you out when a judge flags you before the end of the trick. I went ahead and completed it and let the judges hash it out later; 2 to 1 clear, yea. ;) Actually that's one of the reasons behind so many judges for events and even normal Dan testing; lots of eyes on the player. As long as players know the rules going in it's not a big deal I think.
     
    Mar 2, 2020
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  5. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

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    Vancouver
    @goenKendama great info!

    Thats surprising there isn't a minimum, I remember seeing a minimum length referenced in a couple places before... gonna have to check again now. Maybe it was just an odd translation that implied a minimum, but actually was a recommendation.


    That sounds kinda unlikely, until you see the string lengths of some players :p
    Not surprising though, considering the strictness of JKA testing and contests. I wonder how many players have ever been called on that!
     
    Mar 3, 2020
  6. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

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    IIRC string touching the ground was called on Bryson Lee during the 2018 (maybe 2017) JKA World Kendama Festa competition. Again I'd have to check with one of the JKA judges to see if they remember it. A fair number of JKA players catch nearly at the ground on a lot of their tricks. Part of that is that "tip wet" DQs a trick (you can't make another movement to get it to fall in). However if the trick lands say "tip wet" but you're still moving and it corrects itself without a separate movement then you're golden. So the JKA players will land the trick at the bottom of their full range, standing to practically kneeling. That's likely the reason for the string-on-the-floor rule.

    Some of the JKA judging is a bit like the technical points in ice skating I think; you kind of have to hit a mark and hold it to clear the trick. Some of the explanation that I've seen/heard is that kendama is a combination of motion and stillness for them. It's not just landing the trick but the manner in which it was landed. The ability to fully control yourself and the kendama through all variations of motion and motionlessness. I guess it's seen similar to the dramatic pauses, speed variations, leaps, and overall precision in ballet; not just frenetic movement.

    In keeping with the dance analogy a comparison perhaps would be ballet to interpretive dance and JKA-style to freestyle. None of the variants are inherently "better" than the other but there are differences related to that particular style and some people often have preferences one way or the other.
     
    Mar 3, 2020
    onewordtest, htimSxelA and KeeganS like this.
  7. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

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    @goenKendama yea, that all makes sense. The bit about the movement vs stillness was something the instructors communicated to us when I sat in on a JKA examiners course at the 40th anniversary event. Focusing yourself to put the kendama into action, executing the trick clean and then regaining control without an excess of additional action. They made it quite clear that excessively adjusting the position of, for example, a lighthouse, was grounds for the trick being X'd.

    But we're falling sort of off-topic soooo how about another 'worst trend'.... can I complain about instagram again here? I love 28tricks, but hate how instagram just doesn't show me the posts from a lot of people I follow. I've come across a few profiles I follow, that I had no idea participated in the grind! Come on insta, less ads more dama!

    On that note, I started using TikTok a bit, and I must say it is pretty neat, feels less commercialized than instagram, and there is a lot of great content, once you get past the dancing/singing kids lol
     
    Mar 7, 2020
    Emil Apostol, KeeganS and goenKendama like this.
  8. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it might have something to do with whether they've set up as a business account or not. They maybe inheriting the oddities of FB. i.e. they stop sending out to all your followers unless you pay to "boost". Since we're on IG and kendama the thing I find frustrating is not being able to upload from a computer or manage more than 5 accounts per device. We have several kendama related teams, businesses, clubs, etc. and I have to have 3 devices just to deal with them. It's not a business solution IMO. Who "works" on a handheld device? It's got to be even more of a PITA if you're editing photos or video on a computer first for upload.
     
    Mar 7, 2020
  9. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

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    Dec 6, 2016
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    Boise, Idaho
    This isn’t specific to the kendama community but I find it at the very least annoying when some people in the kendama community don’t realize that we’re not exactly friends (we being a blanket term).
    Not necessarily that they and another player they may just know or follow on social media aren’t on friendly terms but that there isn’t that implicit understanding and relationship that both parties agree on if even on a surface friendly relationship. And it gets to the point where the one party who doesn’t understand that may say or do something in good fun (in their mind at least) and the other party who doesn’t feel any sort of kinship with them feels attacked.
    I’m sure I’ve been a member of both sides of this, there are a number of people i’ve met on Instagram alone because of kendama who I feel like I can call friends because we have an understanding of kinship and support between ourselves. I’ve also seen people put my name somewhere that I didn’t appreciate and thought “Why tf would you do that? I dont know you at all.”

    A non-kendama example I can think of, one of the podcasts I listen to is a comedy podcast that has more or less been streaming for 10+ years so many listeners feel like the 2 cohosts are close to them after listening to them for so long (and granted, a number of them truly are at this point). In one of the pre/post show extras one of the hosts was talking about an experience where he had a deep and thoughtful conversation with a listener through I believe email or IM and at the end the listener ends it by saying something along the lines of, “See ya later asshole.”
    At that point all the meaningful interaction they had was blown apart because, while the two cohosts have the sort of relationship built upon years of friendship where they casually call each other assholes, he did not have the same relationship with this fan and it left a bad taste in his mouth.

    TLDR; just because you follow someone on social media doesn’t automatically make you friends with them.
     
    Mar 11, 2020
    slothymane likes this.
  10. Jake.ship

    Jake.ship Member

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    Oct 30, 2017
    ^lolwut
    It's just as easy to be friendly to someone as it is to be unfriendly :)
     
    Mar 12, 2020
  11. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

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    Boise, Idaho
    Not necessarily being friendly, that’s one thing.
    But acting like there’s this sort of relationship between you and someone that allows you to casually be dicks/jerks to each other when there isn’t and the other person doesn’t feels like it’s unwarranted because they don’t feel like they have that sort of friendship with them.
    We all have friendships like that where you see someone in public and yell out “Hey douchebag!” and maybe it’s easier for some people to get to that point with someone else than others. But if both parties aren’t under the same understanding of where they stand with each other then one person may feel like they’re being attacked instead of it being the friendly jabbing that the other person may intend it to be.
     
    Mar 12, 2020
  12. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

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    Dec 6, 2016
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    Like, i’m not gonna go up to say, @slothymane and call him an asshat just out of nowhere or make fun of him for something about himself (the damas he chooses to play, the clothes he wears, the music he listens to, etc) and expect him to understand it was a joke because we aren’t friends in that capacity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
    Mar 12, 2020
    slothymane likes this.
  13. onewordtest

    onewordtest n00b

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    Feb 24, 2020
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    Hiroshima, Japan
    okay the single worst trend is me having to see a bunch of clips of guys without shirts on
     
    Mar 24, 2020
    Aaron Gallegos and KeeganS like this.
  14. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

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    Dec 6, 2016
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    Boise, Idaho
    Man, that’s something even people who post clips shirtless find annoying.
     
    Mar 25, 2020
    Con man and MaintainEveryday like this.
  15. Con man

    Con man Honed Member

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    Jul 28, 2018
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    colorado, usa
    What if my last name is already Bray but I have my own kendama company #conceptkendamas
     
    Mar 26, 2020
  16. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

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    Dec 6, 2016
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    Boise, Idaho
    This. Insane markups on ‘never played’ kendamas
    And the people saying, ‘respect the hustle’ when these posts for selling ‘never played’ kendamas come up.

    edit. It has now been brought to my attention that the price includes insurance, but that seems a bit unnecessary for a dama shipment.
    B195AEF2-5F1E-42FA-8EB7-5B6604AD02B5.png EFE2C010-1496-4EFC-821E-4CFA86A31760.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
    Jun 10, 2020
    Jedi_man likes this.
  17. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

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    Metro Manila, Philippines
    I guess I don't see it as much of a problem. If they over-price themselves it won't sell. If it's something rare/discontinued then that's kind normal. As for the insurance, that would make sense in some cases. I just sent something to the Philippines and it was absolutely insured and trackable (it's been in the system for 3 weeks, old shipping time was about a week) On a $20 kendama shipped within the US not as big a deal but even there deliveries have been known to disappear. Who pays when that happens and it's not insured? There might also some unscrupulous folks out there who claim to have ship but don't (or receive and say they didn't).

    The "respect the hustle" comments I don't get but to each their own.
     
    Jun 10, 2020
  18. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

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    Dec 6, 2016
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    Boise, Idaho
    A lot of people who saw the post saw issue with the fact that the guy was selling it fresh out of box for $30 more than Sol originally sold it for, while that same price (the $80) was the price that was charged for the same pro mod cushion cleared by Sweets. They didnt see it as fair to sell a dama that isn’t out of production anymore (but does sell out within less than 3 minutes typically) or is rare in the sense that it was produced once for a small amount of people or for a specific event for a higher price than it originally retails for without anything additional to it like it being cushion cleared, or even adding on more accessories and such.
    Though after finding out, I assume the extra $30 may have been for mail insurance, which as I stated above seems unnecessary. I dont know how much insurance costs as again I’ve never used the option for mail packages but I’ve personally never had issues with damas mailed to me (both from individuals and companies) coming in damaged and needing the insurance, same with damas I’ve sold and sent to others.
    Additionally, Sol has stated that they are coming out with more cush cleared pro mods (not just Alex’s)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
    Jun 10, 2020
  19. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

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    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Maybe I'm just trying to remove a little more stress from my life but this really doesn't bother me. It's just the free market at work. A guy posts a given item for some price and someone either buys it or doesn't. If there's no deception or other hanky panky going on about the listing (e.g. saying it's something special when it's not) then it's up to the buyer as to whether the price is acceptable.

    As folks outside the transaction I'm not sure it's really up to us to decide what works for the participants. There have been times I've been offered well over the original value of an item by someone looking to get something unusual that I had. I've also "over paid" for something I really really wanted. I'm having some difficulty seeing how either of those situations is bad if the parties involved are making fully informed decisions.

    Here's an anecdote from our shop in Manila: there was a time when we were having a number of individuals come in and buy up a lot of our stock and then resell it for 2-3x the price we had in our shop. They sold quite a few kendama doing that and it was taking away from our customers since we'd be low or out of stock of our most popular items for stretches of time. One year at Christmas they pretty much cleaned us out so we had to implement a purchase limit to try and help our regular customers and first time buyers. Was I happy about them reselling at that huge markup, no but there wasn't anything I could do to stop it. I could only limit it by using the restrictions on number of units in a given purchase. (I actually got the idea from some famous jeans company that had done the same thing for the same reason.) The people purchasing the secondary market kendama at that higher price didn't seem to mind either. . . unless they discovered our shop later and saw the regular price :D .
     
    Jun 10, 2020
  20. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

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    Dec 6, 2016
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    Boise, Idaho
    @goenKendama i think what irks me personally is that when wanting to resell any kendama, people are overestimating what they really are worth when marking them up within a certain time frame. Again, using Alex’s pro mod as an example, it just released this February and has had 3 separate online drops not including when it was first released at Battle at the Border. Hell, i saw someone post an ebay ad iirc showing another person trying to resell a $15 Sweets Prime Dotburst for about $30.
    Concerning Alex’s pro mod, for something that is still in circulation and expected to be for at least the next year or two (seeing as Sol’s first pro mod will be released 2 years ago this October) it’s extreme to mark up something almost 50% of what it was originally worth. Hell, at best you shouldnt expect more than what you paid for unless it is something with both history and has accrued value over time that a majority of people can agree on like original Mugens.
    A lot of this is coming not from a personal mind but of one who has been in general retail for too long and seen what condition items are returned in. I’m we aware that people will pay what they pay whether it’s worth it or if they truly did get ripped off in the end. But if someone is posting, like the guy above, did to a fairly public group (public in that it is easily seen within the group by its members) who all know what the original value was, again for something that hasnt been around long enough to accrue more value, that person will come off as (for lack of a better term) skeezy.
    And it’s definitely a hot topic in the facebook group. Enough people share your same sentiment of not seeing it as a problem and some share mine, and there is definitely a large amount in both groups who will argue to the teeth about it.
     
    Jun 10, 2020