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Your opinion on sticky paint, bigger cups, bigger holes. Is it cheating? Are you looking down on it?

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by inQntrol, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. Wendy Nugroho

    Wendy Nugroho Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Location:
    Indonesia
    I don't know whether I'm talking in the right forum or not but this topic has been haunting me for almost a year now. I just can't help to discuss it with anyone rather than just thinking about it by myself. Sorry, I'm not really active in the Downspike Community but I hope I have more time to dig into the forum. I'm just too busy with my daylilace and my life. Go check my instagram if you haven't :p Currently on my Day 261. Okay, enough introduction.

    Anyway, let's jump into the topic.

    As we all already know, letting the ken touching our hand while doing lighthouse or lunar, or touching the tama while doing underbird and all that dirty stuff is a terrible thing. It's actually "useful" to help you maintain the loon or lighty from slipping off the tama especially when we are using natty tama or slick paint like JKA's Ozora. But talking about this kind of "stopping power", sticky paint and sticky cups is also another form of handicap for stopping the lighty or loon to slip away. It's just not so obvious like doing handed trick. But the friction is too strong that sometimes it's like gripping the ken more than it naturally do. Somehow it looks like an invisible hand that prevent the separation between tama and ken.

    This thing makes me think. I personally don't like sticky paint, and imo sticky cup is too much. But sometimes I realize that I'm suck and I need to use sticky paint to help me land loon or lighty easier. And again, it makes me think. Is sticky paint considered cheating? I don't know, but I feel like it is.

    In other hand I realize that it's a matter of satisfaction. It's more rewarding to be able to land a dub or trip loon flip on natty or slick painted tama rather than sticky painted one. But sticky paint with less satisfaction helps us to unlock something that's so difficult to master.

    I need to hear your opinion about this cause I know I'm just a noob, and need to learn more from all of you.

    Anyway, sorry I'm not a native English speaker. Sorry for my poor English.
     
    Oct 31, 2018
    htimSxelA and Jedi_man like this.
  2. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines


    @Wendy Nugroho Thanks for your introduction and post. We had a similar thread already running so yours has been merged so that you and others can see the previous posts. Look forward to seeing more of you on DS.
     
    Oct 31, 2018
    Wendy Nugroho likes this.
  3. Wendy Nugroho

    Wendy Nugroho Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Location:
    Indonesia
    @goenKendama thank you for merging my threat so i can see the world clearer. I will be here more often from now
     
    Nov 1, 2018
    goenKendama likes this.
  4. Jasper B.

    Jasper B. Slayer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Location:
    San Diego
    In my opinion, it is quite simple. A few years ago I may have had a different opinion, but right now, I feel like it is all part of the kendama evolution. Larger cups, stickier tamas, and larger bevels are seen on almost all modern shapes, and there is no stopping that. Kendamas will keep changing, and it is up to the players whether they like newer kendamas. Many will hop onto whatever the new hype is, but others will stay the traditionalist way. Newer kendamas are not for cheaters, they are simply a new way to play that will inspire players to land new tricks and progress faster!
     
    Nov 1, 2018
    Wendy Nugroho likes this.
  5. Wendy Nugroho

    Wendy Nugroho Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Location:
    Indonesia
    I really like this point of view. I appreciate it, my friend.

    About a year ago, me and my friends discussed about the evolution of kendama. It's about the shape, the paint, and some other aspects like Yumu's engraving on the cups bevel to help us land bird and sticky cups which does make it way much easier.

    And yeah I agree that no one can stop that evolution. I agree that kendama is supposed to inspire more people to jump into it so they can find their own hype by landing tricks easier. I just hope that in the future, there will be companies that still making kendama that's not making too much distortion.
     
    Nov 1, 2018
  6. Kendama London

    Kendama London Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Location:
    London, UK
    Sorry if there's already a thread on this, but I want to know your opinions on standard sized Kens with original sized cups vs. new shapes with larger cups e.g. Primes, Pops, Shifts etc.

    Having larger cups can definitely help you level up your game real quick and unlock some of the harder tricks you've been wanting for months! But I always find myself going back to a standard size Ken to refresh my overall enjoyment of Kendama. There's something wholly satisfying knowing that you've laced with a standard Ken. I also find that it's so much more comfortable and easier to control, for example the Ken doesn't wobble in the hole when held in Tama grip.

    Obviously it comes down to personal preference, but what are your experiences with standard size Kens, do you think these will eventually phase out with all the larger "easier" shapes becoming available? Will there still be a place for these on the market??

    Most new players will go for something like a Pop or Prime, so will they see a need for the standard shape?

    Thanks :)
     
    Nov 5, 2018
    Wendy Nugroho likes this.
  7. Wendy Nugroho

    Wendy Nugroho Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Hi London, i hope you know who I am. Talking about standard size, we have the same preference I have been loving the standard sized kendamas since the earliest i jumped into kendama. The satisfaction is way much greater than lacing tricks with bigger sized kendamas even it's just a loon flip on a ozora.

    soon after that i got my +% size cups then yes, it does helping me to do harder tricks but still the satisfaction isn't 100% cause i know it's not standard. Yes, not standard

    honestly i don't have any problem with bigger cups and sometimes i use them too.
    but sometimes i got turned off when playing in a +2% i was like "i did it, but this is not my true potential. these bigger cups is the reason i landed this. so it wasn't 100% me who laced the trick". +3%, +4% and +5%, the higher the number, the less i feel satisfied of lacing tricks.

    since I'm suck at kendama, i guess +1% is okay. but still 99% satisfaction, but that's still better than 98%.

    recently i fell in love with DaO. the cups size is a slight bigger than ozora IMG_20181103_180523_320.jpg photo by @janskix103 on instagram

    yes, i'm definitely okay with DaO's cups. I just don't have it

    anyway, these are my preferred ken and cup sizes. IMG_20181105_184143.jpg from the left to right: ozora keyaki, dyehappy, sulab v2, sulab v4

    I'm not really sure if dyehappy cup size is bigger than ozora, but mine looks slightly smaller than ozora's cup. and the two sulab, I'm pretty sure they are only 1% bigger than ozora
    IMG_20181105_184639.jpg left: ozora, right: sulab v4
    IMG_20181105_184754.jpg left: sulab v2, right: ozora

    i guess that's all. happy slaying no matter your preference is
     
    Nov 5, 2018
    htimSxelA and Kendama London like this.
  8. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Nov 5, 2018
  9. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    Personally, I don't mind sticky paint, but I do want to bring up the point that not all sticky paints are created equal. I like rubber paint when I play kendama, and I think it's the perfect middle ground "Paint", giving both a good grip, while at the same time allowing for adjustments for balance tricks.

    This being said, would y'all consider rubber paint as a "sticky" paint, or does sticky paint here refer to the transparent sticky clears popular today?
     
    Nov 5, 2018
  10. Wendy Nugroho

    Wendy Nugroho Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Location:
    Indonesia
    i would rather say grippy rather than sticky, and this applies to rubber and silk as well.
     
    Nov 5, 2018
    Emil Apostol likes this.
  11. Kendama London

    Kendama London Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Location:
    London, UK
    Nov 5, 2018
  12. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines

    If you read through this thread and perhaps the links I also provided you'll find that cups and ken sizes are also mentioned. For example:


    And from one of the links:

    This thread might also be of interest: Are we lying about the best beginner kendama?





    *** UPDATE: The DS Staff has updated the thread title, with "bigger cups," to more accurately reflect content and make it easier to find with the Search function. (OP has been contacted.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
    Nov 5, 2018
  13. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    Found this thread as I was going to make a thread about unpopular kendama opinions.

    Honestly, bigger cups and sticky paint are just kendama companies catering to market demand. I don't see anything wrong with it, because a "boosted" kendama with bigger cups and sticky paint can only be properly utilized by someone who already has a solid kendama foundation. To illustrate, give Bonz a TK16 (standard cups, slick paint, no bevel) and he'll make it look like the best kendama ever, but give a Boost Shape kendama to a beginner or a non-player and it won't do much for them.

    In my opinion, I'm still a fan of the classic proportions of a kendama (which is why I am more partial to the Kaizen 2.0 then I am to the prime and pop shapes). Also, there are some kendama companies out there who stick with the idea of playability without having boosted ken shapes (Da/O, Grain Theory [to a certain extent], and even classic JKA brands), so anyone who isn't a fan of the new trend has options.

    In sum, I see nothing wrong with Bigger Cups and Sticky paint, but what matters is personal preference, as well as your own skill with kendama. All the crutches in the world won't work if you don't know how to walk, after all.
     
    Jan 31, 2020
  14. jimgrude

    jimgrude Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Location:
    Tokyo
    While I do agree with this in general, I can say from personal experience that "boosted" kendamas can very much affect the speed of progression for both beginners and more experienced players alike. I exclusively played Nintei and other traditional Japanese kendamas for about eight years before I tried my first "updated" shape. Areas in which I for years struggled to make any progress, all of a sudden opened up seemingly without effort. I guess even though my bag of tricks was very lacking, my years of experience playing made my progress skyrocket as soon as I touched those massive cups and got my hands on a tama that actually had grip.
     
    Feb 2, 2020