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Competition Legal Kens

Discussion in 'The Lumber Yard' started by Steezdiaz, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Steezdiaz

    Steezdiaz Slayer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    Location:
    Chico, CA
    I know a lot of Kendamas advertise "competition legal" size or specs. Where can I find these so called rules and regulations? Aren't there different rules for different competitions? I've searched around online with no luck. Thanks in advance!
     
    Dec 3, 2016
  2. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    'Competition size' likely refers to one of two things: the JKA approved size, OR something that fits in the GLOKEN box.

    The JKA was the authority in kendama for a long time, so when kendama first became popular outside of Japan, people followed the JKA standard. Really though, those were the only kendamas available at the time that were decent quality, so there wasn't much choice, unless you wanted an Ozora Taiyo or Emperor.

    These days, there are a bunch of different sizes available. I'm pretty sure the handturned Terra Omega series were the first 'slightly larger' sized kendamas that were made, though there aren't very many of those (maybe... 7 total?). The LBB came not long after.. it was basically the Omega shape, but instead of handturned they were CNC cut. Around the same time, the Musou launched, and it was just sliiiightly larger than the JKA size, designed to get around the JKA's patents in Japan. Then GT had cups that were a fair bit larger, then HGs upped their cup sizes, then Sol Flows, then Tall Boys, then Slaydawgs... you get the idea.

    Long story short, with so many options, GLOKEN needed to create some sort of standard for whats acceptable at KWC. So they designed and made these boxes:
    Screen Shot 2016-12-03 at 1.23.00 AM.png

    These were first introduced for the first KWC in 2014. If your ken fits in the box, you can use it, simple as that! KWC and the MKO both use this as their guideline, and Catch & Flow sorta does as well. Other contests that are smaller may define their own rules, but this has become the standard for a big part of the scene.

    For JKA contests you must use a JKA approved kendama, and it must be in pretty good condition (a well-worn ken would not be allowed). Also, the weird fatter shaped TK16s are apparently not allowed, even though they have the approved seal on them (see Max Desu's posts in the JKA thread for more info).

    Finally, the BKA also has their own set of rules over in the UK: basically they follow JKA rules, but also allow some non-JKA brands of kendamas to be used (back in the day this included some Sunrise and Play kendamas, but only solid colours, or single stripes, if I remember correct. I'm not sure of the specifics as of late). Other contests in Europe may follow the BKA standard, I'm honestly not sure. I know when the KROM guys host contests they don't use it though.
     
    Dec 3, 2016
    sambarboo, Jasper B., maxdesu and 5 others like this.
  3. Ben Lowe

    Ben Lowe Slayer

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    Oct 11, 2016
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    @htimSxelA Do you happen to know, off-hand, what the largest "slightly bigger" kendama is that still fits in the gloken box? I'm assuming LBBs don't for instance. Musous and Flows do??

    How many of these boxes are around? Can folks buy them from Gloken to use?
     
    Dec 3, 2016
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  4. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    LBBs are just the tiiiiniest bit too large, the spike is about 3mm too long, and the sarado is like 2mm too wide. For KWC I actually just modded a few down to size for a couple different players that wanted em. Musous definitely fit, flows probably do too, though I've never tried.

    I don't know how many they have, and I've never seen them publicly for sale. My guess is they wouldn't sell them unless you were running a legit contest, seeing as they're made by hand (usually by Takeshi Yano I think), and they probably aren't cheap (they seem to usually be made from expensive wood species too, I've seen a couple of Indian Rosewood boxes). So I think they are sort of 'special order for special purposes' only, though I could be wrong.
     
    Dec 3, 2016
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  5. Steezdiaz

    Steezdiaz Slayer

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    Nov 1, 2016
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    Dec 5, 2016
  6. Steezdiaz

    Steezdiaz Slayer

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    Random question, Slaydawgs claim to be competition approved, but aren't they beefier than LBB's?
     
    Dec 10, 2016
  7. Ben Lowe

    Ben Lowe Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
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    Alex posted a pic comparing the sizes of different kendamas he had on hand in the LBB thread: http://www.downspike.com/threads/lbb-love.367/

    I'll just drop in the pic for convenience:


    LBB is in the middle. To the right of it is a Sol Flow. When I compare my flow and Slaydawg, the Flow is actually taller, though the slaydawg is very slightly beefier with the tiniest bit bigger cups. Given that, it seems as though the LBB is noticeably larger than a slaydawg.
     
    Dec 10, 2016
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  8. Steezdiaz

    Steezdiaz Slayer

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    Ah got it! Thanks dude!
     
    Dec 10, 2016
    Ben Lowe likes this.
  9. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
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    @Steezdiaz yea, @Ben Lowe is on it! Slaydawg is pretty much the same height as the standard size, but the cups and tama are larger. They're A-OK for contest use (but obviously not JKA approved)
     
    Dec 11, 2016
    RyanArthurWalker likes this.
  10. RyanArthurWalker

    RyanArthurWalker Slayer

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    Do you think it makes a huge difference to a contest if someone uses a Sol Flow vs a standard JKA size ken?
     
    Dec 13, 2016
  11. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
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    I mean, there certainly are kendamas that make tricks easier. I think LBBs are a lot easier to play than a shin fuji, does that mean someone playing one has an unfair advantage? Thats though to say. I think that most of the time, it won't affect who wins.
    A sol flow is probably more playable than your average JKA dama for a fair number of tricks, but every dama is different. Think about the dama in your collection that is the best one you own for birds. Now think about the one that is the worst. It's probably a very big difference in the percentage of successes you would have trying bird tricks with each ken.The JKA has really tried to standardize kendamas, once you shop outside of their 'JKA approved' kendamas, you're going to get much larger changes in playability between models than if you just stuck to an ozora, tk16, shin fuji... etc.

    So, it does make a difference, but remember that everyone else can also use whatever dama they want for the contest too, so it isn't like any one competitor has an advantage over the rest.



    Did Bryson win KWC16 cause he was using some dope Sweets ken that was just honed af? No, he won because he was honed af. He probably had a few kens that he had practised with and broken in perfectly, but my guess is he would have placed very well in the contest even if he was using a trib-holed Kaleb ken with a black shin fuji tama on it. What I mean to say is, a kendama won't be the reason someone ends up winning, skills are what do that.

    I mean, I could see a situation where someone makes a dama that is THE best lunar dama of all time, and then they have the luck to ONLY draw lunar tricks, winning a big contest. Had they drawn some bird tricks they would have lost for sure! But oh, what luck they had!
    ...that seems unlikely though, as long as a contest's trick list is diverse, and competitors have to attempt a reasonable number of those tricks in order to win the whole contest.


    Related: I'm pretty sure for big yoyo contests, you can use any yoyo for 1A, with the stipulation that the yoyo must have been sold publicly at some point in time, with at least 100 pieces produced (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here). So basically, you can't specially design a crazy yoyo that is vastly superior, and no other competitor can get their hands on. Kendama doesn't have a rule like that. Should it?
     
    Dec 14, 2016
    Dan Reinstein, maxdesu and Steezdiaz like this.
  12. maxdesu

    maxdesu Honed Member

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    Oct 12, 2016
    I'm always amazed by your knowledge and love of spreading knowledge. thanks for all of the posts!
     
    Dec 14, 2016
    sambarboo, htimSxelA and Steezdiaz like this.
  13. Kyle Sycip

    Kyle Sycip n00b

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2016
    I've competed at yoyo contests before and afaik there aren't really any rules as to what yoyos can or can't be used.
     
    Dec 17, 2016
    htimSxelA and Steezdiaz like this.
  14. Ryalkid20

    Ryalkid20 Honed Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    In my opinion I don't want the kendama
    Community to start making larger Kendamas but I doubt it will happen since everyone is so used to normal sized shape and we are
    Still perfecting it but as long as it fits in the box I really don't mind
     
    Jan 10, 2017
  15. Jasper B.

    Jasper B. Slayer

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    Dec 5, 2016
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    San Diego
    How can i get a box like this to check if my damas i hand turn are competition size or not???
    I always wondered....
     
    Jan 18, 2017
  16. Nick Lectura

    Nick Lectura Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Most kendamas are competition sized. I think the only exceptions may be anything bigger than a Slaydawg. If your hand turned ones are around the same size as a regular kendama, you're fine. Otherwise I think the only way you could check would be to go to Japan haha
     
    Jan 18, 2017
  17. Ben Lowe

    Ben Lowe Slayer

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    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
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    I'm so curious if the Craft Plus is legal (fits in the box.) Does anyone know yet? From what @htimSxelA describes, the LBB is so close, so maybe the slightly smaller Plus will fit...
     
    Jan 19, 2017
  18. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator Staff Member

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    Sep 29, 2016
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    Yeap it does fit, part of our design process actually took the box size into consideration
     
    Jan 19, 2017
    sambarboo and Ben Lowe like this.
  19. Ben Lowe

    Ben Lowe Slayer

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    Oct 11, 2016
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    Very cool. I've been digging my LBB and it's size so much, I'm thinking the craft plus will probably be my next purchase (later when I can afford it.)
     
    Jan 19, 2017
  20. Steezdiaz

    Steezdiaz Slayer

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    Nov 1, 2016
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    Chico, CA
    Whoa LBB fits in the box? There must be more wiggle room than I thought :D I love the size of the LBB
     
    Jan 21, 2017