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Double Elimination Tournaments

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by Caleb Jeffries, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. Caleb Jeffries

    Caleb Jeffries Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    This idea has been on my mind for a good while, why aren't any dama competitions double elimination format?

    For those who don't know, double elimination is where you have to lose twice to be out. Everyone starts in the upper/winners bracket and once you lose a match, you drop down to the lower/losers bracket. In the end you'll have two people come out on top; the winner of the upper bracket, and the winner of the lower bracket. They play to decide the winner of the whole competition. The person from the losers bracket has to win 2 matches to win the whole contest because you have to lose twice to be out right?

    Anyways, the reason I think this is a much better way of running Open Divisions is because of the luck factor in kendama. Yes kendama is a toy based mostly on skill and muscle memory, but there IS undeniable luck involved. Whether it's the trick pulled or just some straight up fluke of an attempt. Plus, who doesn't want a second chance? Another good reason is because of how often a top player/pro is eliminated early. An easy example is at MKO 2015 when Nic Stodd and Jake Fischer played round 1. Both these players were expected to do well in the comp, but one of them was out round 1. This can also be avoided by seeding the brackets so top players don't play each other too early, but double elimination helps as well.

    The only con to this is the fact that it does take longer, so I understand why tournament organizers wouldn't implement it in single day events like Tacoma Takeover, but for multiple day events like MKO when day 1 rounds don't start till 4 P.M. anyways, there is more than enough time. Double elimination not only gives players a second chance but it also creates a bunch of hype when someone makes a sick run through the losers bracket to take the whole comp.

    It's just something that's been on my mind for a while and I was wondering what the community thought.

    Let's hear it!
     
    Apr 19, 2017
  2. Chad Covington

    Chad Covington Slayer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2016
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    I 100% agree on this! Kevin DeSoto actually runs two double elimination open division competitions in Vegas alongside Ken Castle! Dama in the Dojo and Chillin n' Grillin! I think we should all transition to a double elimination tournament.
     
    Apr 19, 2017
    Shikey and Caleb Jeffries like this.
  3. sethtosta

    sethtosta Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    I think this is something that needs to be seriously considered. More excitement and an opportunity for someone to compete multiple times in a contest.
     
    Apr 19, 2017
    Caleb Jeffries likes this.
  4. DeSoto

    DeSoto n00b

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2016
    Dude it's super fun, and it does take a long time, but it's a good idea because the people that come from out of town get there money's worth and people who get crappy matchups can pull some mango ish @Caleb Jeffries
     
    Apr 19, 2017
    Caleb Jeffries likes this.
  5. Nick Lectura

    Nick Lectura Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    I like this idea, I'm with it.

    At Sakura, I'm pretty sure Josh Grove was down 0-3 and he tied it back up and won. It's always sick to see someone make a comeback
     
    Apr 19, 2017
  6. Joel Clayton

    Joel Clayton Honed Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Location:
    St. George, UT
    I think every comp should be double elimination
     
    Apr 20, 2017
    Caleb Jeffries likes this.
  7. htimSxelA

    htimSxelA Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Hmm interesting idea, that double elim would remove some of the 'luck variance'. Technically, making a round twice as long would effectively do the same thing, although I think that we have a cognitive bias that says 'playing two matches is more of a wholesome experience than one long match'.

    A simpler variant of this is 'everyone plays at least twice', rather than 'you have to lost twice to be out'. Basically, all of the first round losers seed into a 'loser's bracket', and then you proceed as usual with two separate brackets. The winner of each bracket battles it out at the end, with the option of the losing bracket player having to win twice in order to win.

    Keeps the bracket cleaner, so that you don't need to keep adding people to the loser's bracket after every round of the winner's bracket finishes.
     
    Apr 20, 2017
    sethtosta and Caleb Jeffries like this.
  8. Shikey

    Shikey n00b

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    I am definitely in support of this. While yes, it would take a lot longer, I think that it could bring a whole lot more two-day events.
     
    Apr 20, 2017
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  9. Caleb Jeffries

    Caleb Jeffries Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    I see how the different variants can make the tourney simpler to run, but with sites like Challonge that generate and run tournament brackets almost automatically it's not TOO much of an issue.
     
    Apr 20, 2017
    goenKendama likes this.
  10. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Side question about Challonge, it sounds like a good idea, what's the catch? What does it cost or limitations? We're about to have a competition and I've been looking for easier ways to manage it.
     
    Apr 20, 2017
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  11. azleonhart

    azleonhart Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    This should help!
    If you don't need any of these, the site is free to use!

    IMG_2597.PNG IMG_2598.PNG



    I usually come to Challonge to generate the brackets, then fill out the names in Numbers (Mac/iOS).
    iCloud syncing helps me loads.
     
    Apr 20, 2017
    goenKendama likes this.
  12. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    @azleonhart So it's an app too? I'll have to check into that, thanks.
     
    Apr 21, 2017
  13. azleonhart

    azleonhart Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    Ohh no no!
    These are screenshots from the built-in browseron my phone!
     
    Apr 21, 2017
    goenKendama likes this.
  14. goenKendama

    goenKendama Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Ah, OK. No worries.
     
    Apr 21, 2017
  15. Caleb Jeffries

    Caleb Jeffries Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Yeah like @azleonhart said, you CAN pay for it but you can get everything you need for running a tournament for free. The bracket generates itself, all you have to do is enter the names. You also can 'seed' the bracket so top players don't play each other too soon. Pretty handy. It's how Cody Griswald ran MKO and how I have been running COTK battles
     
    Apr 21, 2017
    goenKendama likes this.